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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

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Willis your host and I want to apologize

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for last week I am on the road and last

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week at the last minute the guest had to

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cancel for a family situation so I do

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apologize to everyone out there for not

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you know having a show last week and

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this week we have Kevin Randle always

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loved having him on the show to get the

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square scoop of what's happening around

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out there and has happened and all that

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it's always really great to talk to him

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and before that I have Alejandro Rojas

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coming up with UFO updates and I do want

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to thank everyone that supports the show

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we couldn't do it without you and I'm

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here solo with a little tiny computer

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down in Florida and I hope that I'm not

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gonna mess too many things up I'll do my

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best that I can and Alejandro welcome to

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the show hello hello thanks for having

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me is that what you're Orange

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I am Orange no way yeah uh-huh yeah was

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that on purpose or is that just another

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no it's the Sunshine State I'm Luke you

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know Orange oh okay okay great

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no actually oranges it's just the camera

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yeah mmm interesting interesting yeah

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well so yes I'm doing well and I hope

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you're having a great time I hear that

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the weather is finally you have the

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advantage over me you've got the Sun in

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the heat whereas I'm freezing in 60

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degree temperature Oh six of you poor

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thing

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well it was 90 today to me that's it's a

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little too warm that's you know it's

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gonna be seven degrees where I live up

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in Maine tomorrow so yeah I feel so

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lucky to escape that so what's going on

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in the UFO world well there's uh always

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a lot going on so there's a couple

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interesting stories here that I wanted

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to mention one of them on Nick Pope

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posted although he's living here in the

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US it's kind of his

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the woods out there in the UK and I'm

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going to and I didn't learn even though

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you and I had talked about this earlier

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I didn't go educate myself on how to say

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the names of these cities like I should

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have but the headline is and this is

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from a paper called the Glau a shire

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live and actually this is a paper that I

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refer to often because you know the UK

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just like the u.s. in these local papers

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they write about UFO stories and

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happenings in their areas quite a bit

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and these guys write about different

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sightings once in a while as well this

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one is a sighting over the m5 which is a

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highway that was headed towards the town

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of Bristol and it was seen and reported

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by pilots so very interesting case it

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essentially was three orange orbs but

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what's cool about this is air Midwest

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actually tweeted about it

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they wrote there has been a lot of

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interest in the fact that our pilots

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observed UFOs last night during night

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flying exercises so here's a brief

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summary of the situation they posted

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this on February 15th the sighting was

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on February 14 but essentially they said

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last night at about 10:00 p.m.

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south of Glaus Shire there were airborne

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unidentified light so they talked about

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those a little bit just that they were

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moving very fast they sent planes on an

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intercept course but they couldn't catch

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whatever it was now these weren't jet

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fighters I think these were just regular

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commercial aircraft but they there's

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also in this article a glacier Cheryl

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live a an account from one of the pilots

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who just said he saw two large square

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orange lights one on top of the other

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they looked very strange to him he did

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not believe they were balloons because

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of how fast that they moved so this is a

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a new kind of ongoing case in the media

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in the UK that's that's pretty

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interesting well we actually have

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someone in the chat room that's actually

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from Gloucestershire and that's why I

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just said it the way it's supposed to be

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pronounced Gloucestershire according to

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him he did it phonic lee in the chat

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room isn't that nice that's very nice

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thank you Gloucestershire yeah and

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the gloucestershire clashes sure clashes

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sure I gotta get that cuz I reference it

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sound quite a bit because they have so

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many of other sightings and so that is

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it yeah great story yeah just because we

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pronounce it correctly doesn't

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necessarily that mean though that people

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are gonna be able to find it when they

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look out there but you can find it in my

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social media where I guess I could spell

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it real quickly it's GL o u c EST er is

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the name of the city jokes are e yeah if

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you get the whole name but if you put

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closer sure you fo you'll find this

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story out there if you're a post going

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to my social media so that's the first

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story of the day second one this is kind

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of interesting

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mensa writing about to the stars and lou

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Elizondo and the whole a tip situation

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so it's very interesting Mendte of

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course is the intelligence you know

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organization it's a club for people

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whose IQs are over I think 124 or 142 I

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can't remember exactly which one it is

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they're they're tagged lagging it is

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where brilliants belong they're not shy

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about being proud of their higher IQs

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but they wrote about this case in a very

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straightforward way they kind of just

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talked about how you know there's been

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mysteries and science before and now

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there are scientists and credible people

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tackling this issue now that this was

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kind of all brought together by Tom

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DeLonge and that they have this atom

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project where they're looking at

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materials that they have obtained that

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they believe may be anomalous but in

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particular they do get a quote from

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someone we haven't heard from that often

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that's part of the to the stars group

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and that's Steve justice he is formerly

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of Lockheed skunkworks and skunk works

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is a team that created you know the f-22

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Raptor the f-35 Lightning the stealth

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plane to you to the sr-71 much of this

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developed at area 51 they're the guys

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who built and we're in charge of area 51

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a lot of that craft was inspired by the

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CIA or projects that were CIA sponsored

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but that

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so of course fled over to Air Force and

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and other organizations but it so it's

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incredible that we have this guy with

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skunkworks who is working on UFO

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projects one of his quotes that I liked

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he said to the Stars is a group of

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people who came together to answer the

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questions that most of society is afraid

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to ask there's this overwhelming body of

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evidence that indicates something

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strange is going on

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so essentially making the argument that

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UFOs are worthwhile study so really

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interesting and then one more thing gets

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kind of along the lines is about a tip

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and LU Elizondo is that that

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organization in this Mensa article they

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they mentioned that a tip no longer

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exists that it went from 2007 to 2012

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however according to Lou that is not the

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case the organization still does exist

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in fact he said that in the New York

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Times but for whatever reason the Mensa

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article didn't allude to that

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the DoD did say that funding was pulled

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in 2012 however there's a gentleman

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Tammy Silva who's got a website called

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silver record and it's pretty good he's

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been following all of this stuff and he

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wrote an article recently called

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a tip did not end and essentially he

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goes over all of the quotes and

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information around how a tip still

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exists and Lou told me and this is a

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really I think a pretty interesting he

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told me not only does it continue

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but that who the people who are running

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out are very high level he talked about

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kind of some of the ranks but yeah very

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very high level individuals that are

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still involved with a tip and you know

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it's been debated but the key players

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and the people who not only worked on

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the program but also started it have

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claimed you know UFOs were a big part of

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this program looking into UFO phenomena

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including and their example was the USS

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Nimitz situation so yeah so already saw

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it I think she's going on that that is

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that is something it's it's just you

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know I I wonder what I would be so nice

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to know what Lou knows you know yes it

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way as far as lasers running it and all

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that in

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you know what more information you know

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it would be great if we had all the

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scoop and it seems like we may be

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getting it slow you know spoon-fed a

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little bit here and there possibly and

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you have you told me earlier today that

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you know Lou was gonna be on your show

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and had to call it off for a couple

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weeks and he's involved in something but

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you're actually going to be interviewing

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him thoroughly in the next few weeks

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right yeah so he can't do any media

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interviews for a few weeks however

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luckily before that I am already

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planning to meet him one on one a

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meeting we had already pre-planned so he

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said that he'll give me a little bit of

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information a little bit more that and

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some that can be shared when we do meet

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and then once he's cleared to do

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interviews he'll be able to share a lot

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more about like the current project

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someone had mentioned before Tom DeLonge

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tweeted that they had some sort of you

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know findings with the atom project that

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they'll be able to share in the future

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so we'll be able to get a lot more

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information out in a few weeks so and

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this project that that has you know

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essentially delayed him being able to do

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my interview has also delayed the

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release of information for quite some

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time so they're very excited to be able

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to share a lot more about what they've

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been up to in the last few months now

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some people complain I would say sorry

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they made still bunch of promises but we

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haven't heard much but you got to

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remember it takes a long time to

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investigate this stuff especially if

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you're dealing with materials where you

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have to get things analyzed and then

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that the analysis the data to be

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analyzed by another third party so it

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takes a lot of time to do this in fact

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the seu which we talked about earlier

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and Kevin Randall's part of that the

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scientific Coalition for ufology those

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guys came out with their Aguadilla

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report it took them two years to

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research that and come out with that

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report so well you know I would argue

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that it hasn't been that you know we've

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gotten quite a bit in this year or so

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but it sounds like there's a lot more

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information to cut them yeah yeah

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exciting

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this could be the year of course I've

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been saying that for you know 70 years

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but anyway you know what you would be

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right the last couple years 2017 we

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found out about the Pentagon project or

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at least you know and to the start

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started last year we found out tons more

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00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:27,400
about it so each year 2017 2018 and have

273
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:29,770
been banner years for this this field

274
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:32,560
and it seems like 2019 will follow up

275
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:35,290
with that it sure could happen Hey

276
00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:37,570
mm-hmm thank you very much Halle hundra

277
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:40,750
all right thank you and I'll see you in

278
00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:45,210
Roswell Kevin okay sounds good

279
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:47,620
all right I'm getting ready to bring him

280
00:11:52,620 --> 00:11:50,710
in all right everyone so hang in there

281
00:11:55,130 --> 00:11:52,630
just one second something's not working

282
00:11:58,650 --> 00:11:55,140
here mm-hmm

283
00:12:00,780 --> 00:11:58,660
okay OBS troublesome anyway Alejandro

284
00:12:02,370 --> 00:12:00,790
thank you and we'll talk to you next

285
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:02,380
week doc you later

286
00:12:08,010 --> 00:12:05,410
all right all right so my guest

287
00:12:13,050 --> 00:12:08,020
I'll been on the show many many times

288
00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:13,060
Kevin rent Randle he is a very prominent

289
00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:15,700
figure in for those of you who are new

290
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:17,980
listeners in the UFO community he's

291
00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:20,410
written over 80 books I can't remember

292
00:12:26,010 --> 00:12:22,390
how many books he's written we'll talk a

293
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,020
little bit about that he was one of the

294
00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:28,240
first people than they're investigating

295
00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:30,670
the Roswell incident he's been writing

296
00:12:36,930 --> 00:12:32,950
lately he's got the go-to blog as far as

297
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:36,940
I'm concerned when it comes to UFOs and

298
00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:38,410
getting the straight scoop there's many

299
00:12:42,390 --> 00:12:40,780
times that I actually go to his blog to

300
00:12:44,370 --> 00:12:42,400
understand something that I'm a little

301
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:44,380
confused about which is quite often and

302
00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:45,970
it's always a pleasure to have him on

303
00:12:51,330 --> 00:12:49,660
the show welcome Kevin I I hate to

304
00:12:53,220 --> 00:12:51,340
correct you at the very beginning of

305
00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:53,230
your show well I think you did that last

306
00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:54,460
time so I'm used to it

307
00:13:00,450 --> 00:12:58,210
oh okay but I don't know why we're still

308
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:00,460
hung up on this 80 books thing no I said

309
00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:04,000
I said at least yes well that 80 books

310
00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:06,580
was like two decades ago it's like 125

311
00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:08,590
now so all right well you gotta get

312
00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:09,670
someone in there they change your

313
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:11,620
Wikipedia page I think that's what it's

314
00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:13,810
all about maybe oh well the information

315
00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:15,990
is yeah

316
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:20,980
Wow so do you ever take any time off yes

317
00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:23,440
yeah and most the time I'm now I'm out

318
00:13:28,350 --> 00:13:25,630
snow blowing the driveway because uh

319
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:28,360
yeah we're in the cold weather you're at

320
00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:30,399
90 degrees we'll be lucky we'll beat

321
00:13:34,829 --> 00:13:32,649
about 1 2 below zero tonight

322
00:13:37,139 --> 00:13:34,839
ah Wow Yanks well that's only

323
00:13:37,889 --> 00:13:37,149
temporarily I'm I have to go back to the

324
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:37,899
snow soon

325
00:13:44,939 --> 00:13:42,010
but anyway so Kevin let's see I think

326
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:44,949
it's Ben I think you were on last July

327
00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:46,630
or something like that I can't remember

328
00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:49,630
exactly when and so there's always

329
00:13:54,990 --> 00:13:52,180
something happening and I see that

330
00:13:59,400 --> 00:13:55,000
lately you've been writing your opinion

331
00:14:01,290 --> 00:13:59,410
on of the new Project Blue Book History

332
00:14:03,689 --> 00:14:01,300
Channel's at Project Blue Book and

333
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:03,699
interviewing you know certain people

334
00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:07,360
involved in that including Paul Hynek

335
00:14:15,060 --> 00:14:12,220
and also someone involved with the not

336
00:14:17,879 --> 00:14:15,070
the History Channel but that was also

337
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:17,889
involved in creating the show right well

338
00:14:22,259 --> 00:14:20,079
the guy is the senior vice president for

339
00:14:25,019 --> 00:14:22,269
arts and entertainment Network which

340
00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:25,029
owns History Channel's I see right he's

341
00:14:28,439 --> 00:14:26,500
the senior vice president for scripted

342
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:28,449
show so he was kind of one of the big

343
00:14:36,269 --> 00:14:31,120
wheels and getting the program to the

344
00:14:38,819 --> 00:14:36,279
air I guess hmm so what do you you know

345
00:14:40,769 --> 00:14:38,829
I I personally really like the show I

346
00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:40,779
know that it's up you know there's a lot

347
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:42,300
of people grumbling in the UFO community

348
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:46,930
because of the facts aren't exactly you

349
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:50,800
you know it's a it's a show based on you

350
00:14:53,819 --> 00:14:52,180
know it says based on the truth but

351
00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:53,829
sometimes it's a little bit loose and

352
00:14:59,129 --> 00:14:56,529
people are you know people that are

353
00:15:00,660 --> 00:14:59,139
hardcore UFO people that want the

354
00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:00,670
straight scoop or a little bit upset

355
00:15:07,439 --> 00:15:02,649
about that but what is your philosophy

356
00:15:10,129 --> 00:15:07,449
in general about how it's going I tuned

357
00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:10,139
in I think the first week to hate it and

358
00:15:16,590 --> 00:15:13,720
got sucked into it and realize that if

359
00:15:18,540 --> 00:15:16,600
you can separate the drama from the fact

360
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:18,550
and it's when you say it's based on real

361
00:15:23,939 --> 00:15:21,310
events it's really loosely based on real

362
00:15:25,710 --> 00:15:23,949
events but if you can separate the the

363
00:15:28,769 --> 00:15:25,720
two things that this is a drama they're

364
00:15:31,259 --> 00:15:28,779
not making a documentary and just get

365
00:15:33,150 --> 00:15:31,269
into it then I I find it quite enjoyable

366
00:15:35,069 --> 00:15:33,160
and one of the questions that came up

367
00:15:36,929 --> 00:15:35,079
first was I wondered how

368
00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:36,939
jail and Hynek would have felt by the

369
00:15:41,249 --> 00:15:38,889
way he's patrol betrayed in the program

370
00:15:43,410 --> 00:15:41,259
and my thought says well there's Hynek

371
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,420
kids what do they think and i got in

372
00:15:47,309 --> 00:15:46,000
touch with paul Hynek to ask him he said

373
00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:47,319
well my dad would have liked the show

374
00:15:51,179 --> 00:15:49,540
he'd have probably got himself a big

375
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:51,189
bowl of popcorn and put his feet up and

376
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:52,930
watch the show and had a great time with

377
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:54,910
it so I'm thinking if the Hynek family

378
00:16:00,300 --> 00:15:57,490
is on board with the program

379
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:00,310
I can't dislike it because of the way

380
00:16:03,389 --> 00:16:01,810
Hynek is portrayed in the program

381
00:16:06,689 --> 00:16:03,399
because the fight the family doesn't

382
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:06,699
mind and yeah I mean I can I could pick

383
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:08,050
it apart a night and I've done a little

384
00:16:13,050 --> 00:16:10,930
bit of that the military stuff is really

385
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:13,060
horrendously portrayed they don't know

386
00:16:16,590 --> 00:16:14,560
how to salute they don't understand

387
00:16:20,009 --> 00:16:16,600
military protocol they don't understand

388
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:20,019
how things developed in the military all

389
00:16:24,449 --> 00:16:22,000
of that stuff which you could fix

390
00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:24,459
without spending any money at all yeah

391
00:16:32,699 --> 00:16:27,689
this side Alton you know I I fact I told

392
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:32,709
Arturo in interion Arturo and Terry and

393
00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:33,970
he's the senior vice president for

394
00:16:39,689 --> 00:16:35,529
Scripps the program I told him when I

395
00:16:42,090 --> 00:16:39,699
had him on my show that the general in

396
00:16:44,939 --> 00:16:42,100
it was wearing a Air Force Commendation

397
00:16:47,790 --> 00:16:44,949
Medal I said that didn't come into being

398
00:16:49,379 --> 00:16:47,800
until 1958 so he shouldn't be wearing

399
00:16:51,059 --> 00:16:49,389
that metal and I'm thinking I'm probably

400
00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:51,069
like one of three people that would have

401
00:16:56,429 --> 00:16:52,540
caught that uh-huh

402
00:16:58,079 --> 00:16:56,439
well you know I mean I'm kind of it's

403
00:16:59,819 --> 00:16:58,089
kind of difficult for people to watch

404
00:17:01,439 --> 00:16:59,829
you know any vintage show with me

405
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:01,449
because I'm a you know I'm an appraiser

406
00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:03,610
and I'm always looking for you know

407
00:17:08,399 --> 00:17:05,260
mistakes and movies I do this all the

408
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:08,409
time it's just a bad habit and the sets

409
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:10,329
are pretty good I mean they're they're

410
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:13,390
kept there they're doing pretty well you

411
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:16,329
know as far as dating the vintage for

412
00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:20,079
everything else but you know I'm

413
00:17:26,460 --> 00:17:22,990
surprised that they don't have an exact

414
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:26,470
you know as far as consulting goes when

415
00:17:29,370 --> 00:17:27,970
you're telling me all these different

416
00:17:33,419 --> 00:17:29,380
things in the military they must have

417
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:33,429
some type of advisor but as it's you

418
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:34,510
know they're missing some things that

419
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:36,880
sounds like but it's really not them

420
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:38,710
it's everybody in Hollywood doesn't

421
00:17:43,409 --> 00:17:41,320
understand military protocol they don't

422
00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:43,419
understand when you salute they don't

423
00:17:46,919 --> 00:17:45,580
the general for example military

424
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:46,929
protocol says you don't refer to a

425
00:17:50,490 --> 00:17:48,070
general as sir you

426
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:50,500
in general most people the Miller carry

427
00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:51,970
when they addressing in general they

428
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:53,500
will say sir I always went out of my way

429
00:17:57,630 --> 00:17:56,050
to say general to them and see if

430
00:18:01,560 --> 00:17:57,640
anybody would get mad at me about that

431
00:18:03,420 --> 00:18:01,570
but I mean if you haven't been in the

432
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:03,430
military spend time in the military some

433
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:04,450
of these things are very hard to

434
00:18:08,430 --> 00:18:06,430
understand they the protocol for

435
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:08,440
saluting for example you don't salute on

436
00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:09,850
the flight line why because there's a

437
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,320
lot of dangerous stuff going on the

438
00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:12,880
flight line and you don't wear your

439
00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:14,500
cover on the flight line meaning your

440
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:15,940
hat you don't wear it on the flight line

441
00:18:19,230 --> 00:18:17,290
because they blow off and get sucked

442
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:19,240
into the engines and blow them up yeah

443
00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:21,040
so there's all these little things like

444
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:23,080
that but but on the other side when you

445
00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:25,930
look at it from a perspective of having

446
00:18:29,370 --> 00:18:27,700
served in military some people do that

447
00:18:31,290 --> 00:18:29,380
sort of thing they don't understand

448
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:31,300
they're new to the the military or they

449
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:32,230
forget about it

450
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,290
or they're not used to being around the

451
00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:36,400
aircraft and that sort of thing you know

452
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:39,790
there were things we did as a pilot we

453
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,320
did that well the best example is I was

454
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:46,720
a Warrant Officer which is a rank

455
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:49,000
between the top ranking sergeants and

456
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:51,760
lowest officers and one day my co-pilot

457
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:53,110
was the first lieutenant while on the

458
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:54,610
ground he outranked me but in the

459
00:18:57,450 --> 00:18:55,120
aircraft

460
00:18:59,370 --> 00:18:57,460
I ought ranked him we were flying a

461
00:19:01,830 --> 00:18:59,380
colonel round to check on various flour

462
00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:01,840
supplier support bases and the colonel

463
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:03,700
refused to talk to me he would talk to

464
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:05,830
the first lieutenant and the lieutenant

465
00:19:10,350 --> 00:19:07,330
would point to me says he's the aircraft

466
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:10,360
commander you've got to tell him and so

467
00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:12,670
I mean that's kind of something that is

468
00:19:17,610 --> 00:19:14,590
a little bit bizarre too to aviation

469
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,620
where you would have the junior officer

470
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:19,120
actually being the aircraft commander

471
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:22,030
and the senior this more senior officer

472
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:24,790
being the co-pilot and at one point we

473
00:19:29,790 --> 00:19:27,010
landed outside of fire support base and

474
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:29,800
I wasn't going to stay out there with

475
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:31,210
the aircraft because we were outside the

476
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,490
wire and I wasn't a safe place to be so

477
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:35,440
we walked inside we had the guy who's

478
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,750
sergeant major with us and he saw the

479
00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:39,280
colonel walking to the aircraft he said

480
00:19:41,790 --> 00:19:40,360
we got to hurry you know the Colonel's

481
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:41,800
going to the aircraft I said he's not

482
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:45,690
going anyplace without us so you know

483
00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:49,090
but that sort of thing you know I look

484
00:19:54,420 --> 00:19:51,160
for that but I understand that Hollywood

485
00:19:56,190 --> 00:19:54,430
just doesn't get it so I suggested to

486
00:19:57,420 --> 00:19:56,200
him they find a military consultant and

487
00:19:59,100 --> 00:19:57,430
it wouldn't really have to be somebody

488
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,110
that was there all the time they could

489
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:00,880
do it via Skype call the guy and says

490
00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:01,460
you

491
00:20:07,149 --> 00:20:04,220
form set up properly and that sort of

492
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:07,159
thing yeah yeah yeah um I wouldn't be

493
00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:09,230
surprised and for the people that don't

494
00:20:15,639 --> 00:20:11,630
know this um if they just they just got

495
00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:15,649
an OK for a season two so yes be going

496
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:18,289
another season so those out there that

497
00:20:20,159 --> 00:20:19,490
hate you're gonna have to hate it a

498
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:20,169
little more

499
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:23,690
well the other thing pointed out is they

500
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:25,370
didn't know how long the show was going

501
00:20:30,490 --> 00:20:27,110
to last meaning they were gonna go for

502
00:20:32,409 --> 00:20:30,500
10 episodes but if they expanded beyond

503
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:32,419
that then there were things they could

504
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:34,220
do but they didn't know that so when

505
00:20:38,409 --> 00:20:36,440
they began they have a character named

506
00:20:41,049 --> 00:20:38,419
Quinn and who he's sort of an ED rupal

507
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:41,059
type guy and the way it was explained to

508
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:42,770
me said but we don't we didn't know

509
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:44,570
where we're gonna go on and if we had

510
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:46,159
ruled in there at the beginning and then

511
00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:47,450
of course he was only over there for a

512
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:49,190
short time then we move into like Snyder

513
00:20:54,570 --> 00:20:51,049
and I forget the other guy's name who

514
00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:54,580
were rabidly anti a UFO and or

515
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:56,990
lackadaisical in the job so they didn't

516
00:21:01,389 --> 00:20:59,600
care so they created this Quinn guy that

517
00:21:04,090 --> 00:21:01,399
tried to take the role of the Air Force

518
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:04,100
officer running the wood and well

519
00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:05,840
because they're all over the timeframe

520
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,350
as well run the the air force end of it

521
00:21:12,940 --> 00:21:11,360
and then of course Hynek started at the

522
00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:12,950
very beginning and goes up into the

523
00:21:17,409 --> 00:21:15,500
1960s with his consulting work with it

524
00:21:19,870 --> 00:21:17,419
with Project Blue Book but like I said

525
00:21:21,850 --> 00:21:19,880
you know I the other thing I remember is

526
00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:21,860
growing up as a kid my my mother

527
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:23,270
told me that George Custer had been

528
00:21:27,639 --> 00:21:25,370
promoted to Brigadier General by mistake

529
00:21:29,529 --> 00:21:27,649
and if you go back and you read the

530
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:29,539
Civil War history you understand no he

531
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:32,210
wasn't promoted by mistake that the

532
00:21:39,159 --> 00:21:36,169
Academy graduates as the Federal Army

533
00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:39,169
expanded with all these volunteer and

534
00:21:43,539 --> 00:21:41,390
militia regiments that were brought in

535
00:21:46,419 --> 00:21:43,549
from the state states regiments they

536
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:46,429
were putting active duty officers in

537
00:21:52,539 --> 00:21:49,850
charge and so I think Custer had been a

538
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:52,549
captain and they from the appointed him

539
00:21:56,590 --> 00:21:54,110
in charge of the Michigan Brigade which

540
00:21:58,299 --> 00:21:56,600
called for a brigadier general so he was

541
00:21:59,860 --> 00:21:58,309
promoted to Brigadier General because he

542
00:22:02,500 --> 00:21:59,870
was now the commander of the Michigan

543
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:02,510
Brigade the idea that he was promoted by

544
00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:04,010
mistake comes from the movie they died

545
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:07,820
with their boots on and there was a idea

546
00:22:11,769 --> 00:22:10,250
was the Michigan well he had custard

547
00:22:13,269 --> 00:22:11,779
taking a horse in the in the show taking

548
00:22:15,159 --> 00:22:13,279
a horse and they they were starting a

549
00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:15,169
letter to him you know due to captain

550
00:22:16,779 --> 00:22:15,590
Custer

551
00:22:18,820 --> 00:22:16,789
you know you took the horse bring it

552
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:18,830
back and they didn't get that far hey so

553
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:22,850
we need a a brigadier for the Michigan

554
00:22:26,289 --> 00:22:25,010
Brigade so it's the guy just picked up a

555
00:22:28,090 --> 00:22:26,299
piece of paper and started riding on it

556
00:22:30,010 --> 00:22:28,100
and the adjutant signed it and was -

557
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:30,020
Custer so he he became a brigadier

558
00:22:34,029 --> 00:22:32,990
general by mistake but that's really not

559
00:22:36,970 --> 00:22:34,039
the way it happened in real

560
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:36,980
honest-to-goodness history yeah so yeah

561
00:22:40,990 --> 00:22:38,710
I mean but the point is you look at the

562
00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:41,000
stories that you see on television you

563
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:43,340
see or the movies and they're based on

564
00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:46,750
real events they compress it they they

565
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:49,820
combine characters they switch events

566
00:22:53,889 --> 00:22:51,950
around so it's a much more dramatic

567
00:22:56,350 --> 00:22:53,899
thing and if you look at the project

568
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:56,360
Bluebook show you you notice they go

569
00:23:02,950 --> 00:22:59,840
from like 1948 with the Gorman sighting

570
00:23:04,539 --> 00:23:02,960
to 1951 which was the Lubbock lights I

571
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:04,549
think they did oh the flatwood monster

572
00:23:09,250 --> 00:23:07,700
1952 then they're back into 1948 so

573
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:09,260
their timeline if you're following the

574
00:23:14,139 --> 00:23:12,110
timeline it doesn't work but there's all

575
00:23:16,990 --> 00:23:14,149
events that had to do with Project Blue

576
00:23:19,090 --> 00:23:17,000
Book or the you of official Air Force

577
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:19,100
investigations you look at all of that

578
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,190
sort of thing and they you're looking at

579
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:24,320
a drama as opposed to a documentary and

580
00:23:29,529 --> 00:23:25,970
you have to keep that in mind and I

581
00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:29,539
think the people who are really annoyed

582
00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:30,860
about the program are looking we're

583
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:32,990
looking for a documentary as opposed to

584
00:23:37,470 --> 00:23:35,600
yeah a drama yes yeah that's what that's

585
00:23:42,190 --> 00:23:37,480
what I'm getting out of it as well and

586
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:42,200
we're going to run to break here and so

587
00:23:47,649 --> 00:23:43,760
this is Martin Willis my guest tonight

588
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:47,659
is Kevin Randle and we will be right

589
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:54,289
back all right we are back and my guest

590
00:24:03,190 --> 00:23:56,809
is Kevin Rendell and we are talking

591
00:24:05,649 --> 00:24:03,200
Project Blue Book so Kevin about the you

592
00:24:10,049 --> 00:24:05,659
know people getting bits and pieces of a

593
00:24:13,539 --> 00:24:10,059
real story and I noticed on your website

594
00:24:16,419 --> 00:24:13,549
you go into the details of certain

595
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:16,429
stories do you think that this is a this

596
00:24:22,750 --> 00:24:20,000
is a in a way also a good thing that

597
00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:22,760
because my personality is if I watch

598
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:27,080
something on TV or a movie or you know

599
00:24:30,740 --> 00:24:29,130
wherever I watch it

600
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:30,750
like to do research if I'm really

601
00:24:34,910 --> 00:24:32,580
interested in the topic and interested

602
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:34,920
in what actually happened of anytime I

603
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:37,230
see something that's based on you know

604
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:38,850
fact I want to know the facts so I do

605
00:24:43,670 --> 00:24:41,760
all my research and I love doing that I

606
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:43,680
don't know if anyone else is like me but

607
00:24:47,180 --> 00:24:45,810
do you think overall that people are

608
00:24:48,770 --> 00:24:47,190
going to be out there you know looking

609
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:48,780
into the what really happened in these

610
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:54,890
cases I put up on the blog on my blog

611
00:25:03,680 --> 00:24:58,320
w-w-w-whoa Rendell blog spot.com I snuck

612
00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:03,690
it in there I I you know the story you

613
00:25:06,610 --> 00:25:05,100
can figure out what case they're really

614
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:06,620
talking about even though they don't

615
00:25:13,340 --> 00:25:10,770
like the Gorman dog fight that was they

616
00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:13,350
called it the fuller fuller was the name

617
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:15,630
of the pilot and so I put up on my blog

618
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:18,510
the real facts as it developed out of

619
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:20,570
that specific case and some of the

620
00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:22,710
explanations have gone longer but I know

621
00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:25,320
that people have come to the blog to

622
00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:28,800
look at that and yet the story as it

623
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:33,180
truly transpired and I think that's one

624
00:25:36,650 --> 00:25:35,130
of the things I thought was was a good

625
00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:36,660
thing for it it gets people interested

626
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:38,700
in UFOs and I'm the same way if I see

627
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:41,130
something on television or I read

628
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:44,100
something like that I go to various

629
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:45,870
sources to see if I can figure out what

630
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:47,850
the real story is and where we are on on

631
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:50,130
on that so I think we're bringing people

632
00:25:53,540 --> 00:25:52,230
into the UFO field who may not have been

633
00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:53,550
interested in saying well this is based

634
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,020
on real facts what are the real facts

635
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,360
and if they look at at the end of the

636
00:26:01,460 --> 00:25:59,760
program it they take like 30 seconds to

637
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:01,470
give you some of the real facts but if

638
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:03,570
you don't catch that and it and it's

639
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:05,940
very very minimal what you get so if you

640
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:07,710
type in Lubbock lights for example I

641
00:26:11,620 --> 00:26:09,510
think you come to my blog or you go to a

642
00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:11,630
lot of other sites that can give you a

643
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:14,460
more expanded explanation of what the

644
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:16,440
Lubbock lights case was really all about

645
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:18,570
so I think it's a good thing and that

646
00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:23,430
we're they are able to interest people

647
00:26:26,690 --> 00:26:25,320
in you follows you who may not have

648
00:26:28,730 --> 00:26:26,700
taken an interest in it before the

649
00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:28,740
program aired on air and we should make

650
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:30,120
it we should make a point here that when

651
00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:31,710
we say project Bluebook we're talking

652
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:33,960
about the television series as opposed

653
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:35,970
to the actual air force investigation

654
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:37,590
which was also called cleverly called

655
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:39,810
Project Blue Book so you know there

656
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:42,490
there is a distinction there right

657
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:46,890
right and when when project Bluebook

658
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:52,480
ended and and you know uh as far as we

659
00:26:59,640 --> 00:26:54,670
know you know there's bits and pieces of

660
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:59,650
the files out there does anyone happen

661
00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:00,880
to know or do you happen to know if

662
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:04,150
there's if they destroyed a lot of their

663
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:06,610
files or perhaps or archived somewhere

664
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:09,370
do you know any of that that situation I

665
00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:13,150
know everything that's why you're in the

666
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:18,030
show yeah absolutely what happened is

667
00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:20,410
that as they were cleaning out the

668
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:22,750
offices in 1969 I interviewed a guy

669
00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:24,700
named Carmen Morano who was technically

670
00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:26,380
the last officer in charge a blue book

671
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:28,660
and it kind of devolved to him he was a

672
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:31,450
first lieutenant and his job was to get

673
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:32,770
rid of the stuff and he thought a lot of

674
00:27:38,490 --> 00:27:35,050
it should be saved so he saved it

675
00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:38,500
himself other and they did put it

676
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:40,270
together into an archive it went to

677
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:43,090
Maxwell Air Force Base which was the Air

678
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:44,410
Force and Archives was there at one

679
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:47,440
point and probably still there and then

680
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:49,330
it went to the National Archives what we

681
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:52,809
what happened was they had all of this

682
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:54,730
material Jack Webb was going to do a

683
00:27:59,220 --> 00:27:56,710
program called Project UFO which is

684
00:28:05,130 --> 00:27:59,230
essentially Project Blue Book and he

685
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,140
paid to have the the files microfilm

686
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:07,840
so Air Force officers went through them

687
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:10,480
and took out the names of everybody it

688
00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:12,370
redacted an awful lot of this stuff I

689
00:28:16,110 --> 00:28:14,350
had been to the Project Blue Book files

690
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:16,120
at Maxwell Air Force Base right after

691
00:28:20,130 --> 00:28:17,110
they're released and that hadn't

692
00:28:22,169 --> 00:28:20,140
happened yet files weren't redacted one

693
00:28:23,549 --> 00:28:22,179
of the things that Bob Cornett I'd gone

694
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:23,559
down there with a friend of mine Bob

695
00:28:28,919 --> 00:28:26,010
Cornett and I did was we wrote down all

696
00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:28,929
the cases all the unidentifieds

697
00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:31,000
with the names we could put the names

698
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:33,460
back into the kit unidentified cases if

699
00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:35,530
you look at the case files on some of

700
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,820
them some of the cases they'll be

701
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:38,320
newspaper clippings at the end those

702
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:39,910
were redacted so you could put the names

703
00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:42,340
back there and the best one I saw was

704
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:44,380
they had done an interview with Kenneth

705
00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:46,510
Arnold about his sighting it was a

706
00:28:49,169 --> 00:28:47,740
telephone interview and they had the

707
00:28:51,450 --> 00:28:49,179
initials of the office here in Kenneth

708
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:51,460
Arnold ka they'd gone through and they

709
00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:53,650
had crossed out all the KS throughout

710
00:28:58,409 --> 00:28:55,929
the entire transcript and

711
00:29:01,440 --> 00:28:58,419
the front page in letters that had to be

712
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:01,450
a half inch high grease pencil pencil it

713
00:29:07,109 --> 00:29:05,049
said Arnold case so you knew what it was

714
00:29:08,369 --> 00:29:07,119
all about right the point simply is to

715
00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:08,379
answer your question yeah the stuff was

716
00:29:12,029 --> 00:29:10,360
say Carmen Miranda saved a lot of stuff

717
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:12,039
that was not classified that had been

718
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:16,330
used by various individuals and desk

719
00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:17,710
drawers as opposed to the official

720
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:19,480
filing cabinets the stuff has all been

721
00:29:22,409 --> 00:29:20,980
micro films you can find it on the

722
00:29:24,749 --> 00:29:22,419
Internet I've got a complete set of the

723
00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:24,759
micro films and I've got pretty much the

724
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:27,100
whole thing on digital copy as well so I

725
00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:29,830
can search stuff pretty easily full

726
00:29:36,450 --> 00:29:32,590
three has the stuff they're full three

727
00:29:38,999 --> 00:29:36,460
is a history site you can join for free

728
00:29:41,489 --> 00:29:39,009
and access the Project Blue Book files

729
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:41,499
because they're they're public records

730
00:29:46,369 --> 00:29:44,289
so you can access there so you can see a

731
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:46,379
lot of the stuff so the stuff is there

732
00:29:56,430 --> 00:29:52,090
Morano away the interesting story a guy

733
00:29:59,519 --> 00:29:56,440
named Rob Mercer oh you go to would go

734
00:30:02,279 --> 00:29:59,529
to Craigslist to look to see if anybody

735
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:02,289
put any UFO stuff up and he found

736
00:30:06,539 --> 00:30:04,840
somebody he was selling a box of Project

737
00:30:08,190 --> 00:30:06,549
Blue Book material and he spent the

738
00:30:12,239 --> 00:30:08,200
hundred dollars to see what it was and

739
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:12,249
it was most of the files duplicate files

740
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:14,769
of the Lonnie Zamora sighting from

741
00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:20,710
Socorro of 1964 and he talked to the guy

742
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:23,230
who who'd found the box he said the I

743
00:30:27,810 --> 00:30:25,330
had said well I was at a garage sale I

744
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,820
was buying this would they I paid him

745
00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:29,679
that they told me to clean it out and I

746
00:30:35,399 --> 00:30:33,460
came to this box of UFO stuff they

747
00:30:37,019 --> 00:30:35,409
didn't know who bought or anything else

748
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:37,029
so I'd put it up on ebay Mercer bought

749
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:39,039
it Mercer through a wonderful piece of

750
00:30:43,379 --> 00:30:41,110
detective work was able to trace the box

751
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:43,389
back to the house learned who to own the

752
00:30:48,450 --> 00:30:46,090
house which was Carmen Morano the last

753
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:48,460
guy to be in charge of Project Blue Book

754
00:30:52,379 --> 00:30:50,830
traced him to his home and talked to him

755
00:30:54,989 --> 00:30:52,389
and found out there was additional stuff

756
00:30:56,850 --> 00:30:54,999
that Morano had saved hadn't looked at

757
00:30:58,409 --> 00:30:56,860
it in decades he said you can have it if

758
00:31:01,019 --> 00:30:58,419
you want so Mercer I got all of this

759
00:31:04,109 --> 00:31:01,029
stuff but the interesting thing is so

760
00:31:07,019 --> 00:31:04,119
you can compare the I guess you can say

761
00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:07,029
sort of the unofficial documents from

762
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:08,830
Blue Book with the official files and

763
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:09,670
see where they're again

764
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:10,990
somewhere there are changes and things

765
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:13,000
like that but the the that's a

766
00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:14,710
long-winded to say yeah the project

767
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:17,260
Bluebook stuff exists and I think most

768
00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:18,760
of it exists I don't think they got a

769
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:20,350
lot rid of a lot of it they got a rid of

770
00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:22,480
some of the stuff in the beginning we

771
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:25,540
know based on correspondence we know

772
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:29,760
based on testimony for example that in

773
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:34,990
1947 1946 1947 the US government the US

774
00:31:40,050 --> 00:31:36,430
military was interested in the ghost

775
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:40,060
rockets in over over Scandinavia and

776
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,370
they gathered a lot of that material it

777
00:31:46,290 --> 00:31:44,080
does not appear in the project Bluebook

778
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:46,300
files although there are references to

779
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:48,370
it in the Bluebook files so at some

780
00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:49,930
point they took out and destroyed all

781
00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:53,800
that material about the ghost rockets

782
00:31:58,740 --> 00:31:56,500
and this was done probably early on in

783
00:32:02,400 --> 00:31:58,750
the investigation there are other things

784
00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:02,410
there are cases referenced in the final

785
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:05,680
reports of sign and grudge but the cases

786
00:32:08,670 --> 00:32:07,510
aren't in the project Bluebook files and

787
00:32:10,110 --> 00:32:08,680
there's nothing about them in the blue

788
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:10,120
book files yet they're referenced in

789
00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:12,130
these the grudge reports so you know

790
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:14,110
there were documents created about that

791
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:15,490
and the documents have since disappeared

792
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:17,590
and if you go through the index of

793
00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:20,080
project Bluebook there's any especially

794
00:32:23,850 --> 00:32:21,880
in the beginning there's a lot of files

795
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:23,860
that say case missing case missing case

796
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:26,320
missing so at some point they had

797
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:28,330
cleaned the files out to get to purge

798
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:31,450
them and that material is gone gone

799
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:32,950
forever although we you know there's

800
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:34,630
hints to where the case was and the date

801
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:35,890
of the case so we can kind of go back

802
00:32:43,470 --> 00:32:39,850
and put some of that stuff together now

803
00:32:46,380 --> 00:32:43,480
for the I think it would be kind of fun

804
00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:46,390
to do this this one thing for the

805
00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:48,880
listener out there that actually watched

806
00:32:55,950 --> 00:32:52,260
the show on say the flatwoods monster

807
00:32:57,780 --> 00:32:55,960
and and talk about the the differences I

808
00:33:00,030 --> 00:32:57,790
know that you wrote a blog about this so

809
00:33:02,370 --> 00:33:00,040
if you wouldn't mind touch on some of

810
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:02,380
the differences between what the show

811
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:05,910
portrayed and what actually happened

812
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:08,140
well the one thing that bothered me most

813
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:10,750
about that was that you seem to have the

814
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:13,960
townspeople up in arms like the farmers

815
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:15,910
or the townspeople in a Frankenstein

816
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:17,980
movie you know they got their torches

817
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:20,290
and pitchforks they're storming the

818
00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:22,450
castle because dr. Frankenstein has

819
00:33:25,529 --> 00:33:23,470
created this month

820
00:33:27,629 --> 00:33:25,539
and you get this sort of idea in the

821
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:27,639
flatwoods case that the the people are

822
00:33:31,019 --> 00:33:28,870
there were there shotguns and they're

823
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:31,029
really annoyed about the story of the

824
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:32,799
monster well that never really happened

825
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:37,840
the townspeople did come to Kathleen

826
00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:39,250
Mae's house she was one of the people

827
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:41,919
involved in seeing the thing and to talk

828
00:33:45,149 --> 00:33:43,090
to her and then they went out and

829
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:45,159
searched for the monster from that point

830
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,049
but there was no kind of conflict

831
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,120
between the townspeople and the people

832
00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:50,799
who had seen the UFO that was the one

833
00:33:55,470 --> 00:33:52,990
thing that really bothered me about it

834
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:55,480
the explanation they come up with the

835
00:34:00,180 --> 00:33:57,120
and the air force shows well it's an owl

836
00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:00,190
with the big eyes on a tree that had

837
00:34:03,810 --> 00:34:02,320
been kind of burned by something and

838
00:34:05,580 --> 00:34:03,820
that was kind of the air force

839
00:34:07,409 --> 00:34:05,590
explanation and the way they showed it

840
00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:07,419
in the program kind of made sense

841
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:09,700
because it really did sort of look like

842
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:12,220
a monster but it really was an owl in a

843
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:14,649
tree I'm not sure that that's a

844
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:18,159
legitimate explanation but then but they

845
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:20,079
they take they take a lot of liberties

846
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:21,609
with the case you know they change the

847
00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:23,800
name of the people obviously I think at

848
00:34:27,659 --> 00:34:25,899
the end of that case somebody committed

849
00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:27,669
suicide because they wouldn't listen to

850
00:34:32,099 --> 00:34:30,220
her she jumped out of the hospital

851
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:32,109
mm-hmm and that sort of thing that those

852
00:34:37,369 --> 00:34:34,210
things didn't happen but we're also

853
00:34:39,930 --> 00:34:37,379
they're also creating a drama here and

854
00:34:42,990 --> 00:34:39,940
you know I was I thought that was a

855
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:43,000
little bit over the top but it was part

856
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:46,990
of the drama so I you know the case was

857
00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:48,310
you really didn't have the conflict

858
00:34:51,809 --> 00:34:50,200
between the townspeople there was a

859
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:51,819
certain amount of ridicule directed at

860
00:34:55,950 --> 00:34:53,770
the people that saw the UFO or though or

861
00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:55,960
what at the monster that sort of thing

862
00:35:00,920 --> 00:34:58,690
but you get that in any UFO case now

863
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:00,930
there's a great deal of ridicule

864
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:03,910
directed at people who report that sort

865
00:35:09,569 --> 00:35:06,010
of thing you know and you look at the

866
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:09,579
mainstream media and their idea is and

867
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:11,260
it's changing now I I see them being

868
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:14,650
much more consistent with their

869
00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:15,970
reporting much more accurate with the

870
00:35:20,309 --> 00:35:18,190
reporting it but for the longest time it

871
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:20,319
was the idea that I'm too sophisticated

872
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:22,990
to believe in flying saucers but I'll

873
00:35:27,809 --> 00:35:25,089
let you ramble on and then I'll make fun

874
00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:27,819
of you and when we're done here and you

875
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:30,599
would see that in the local media doing

876
00:35:34,290 --> 00:35:32,770
UFO stories and that sort of thing and

877
00:35:36,990 --> 00:35:34,300
the one that really cracked me up was

878
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:37,000
these two guys in New Jersey

879
00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:38,830
tried to create a UFO sighting by

880
00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:40,630
attaching flares to a balloon because

881
00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:43,240
you wanted to below wanted to believe to

882
00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:45,700
prove that UFO investigators and

883
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:47,260
researchers were credulous and the

884
00:35:50,910 --> 00:35:48,490
witnesses didn't know what they talked

885
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:50,920
about and when you watch the stories as

886
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,630
they unfolded on the TV you'd see the

887
00:35:56,970 --> 00:35:54,660
witnesses actually being very credible

888
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:56,980
explaining exactly what they see he saw

889
00:36:00,780 --> 00:35:58,960
a reporter at one point saying well the

890
00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:00,790
UFO seems to be its lights seemed to be

891
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:02,470
flashing and the and the woman they

892
00:36:04,740 --> 00:36:03,490
weren't ever you said no no it was

893
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:04,750
passing behind a tree and it was

894
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:07,180
wintertime and at nighttime so you

895
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:08,560
didn't really see the tree but you saw

896
00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:10,090
the lights blinking and she was able to

897
00:36:12,930 --> 00:36:11,710
explain what that was I thought well

898
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:12,940
that's very good she's explaining

899
00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:14,200
exactly what was going on

900
00:36:18,180 --> 00:36:15,910
and these two guys were attempting to

901
00:36:21,090 --> 00:36:18,190
him to create this but the one that got

902
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,100
to me was the reporter going to a little

903
00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:22,720
girl eating a lollipop and says what do

904
00:36:26,430 --> 00:36:24,670
you think about the aliens I thinking

905
00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:26,440
nobody said a word about aliens nobody

906
00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:27,940
said a word about anything and you then

907
00:36:31,950 --> 00:36:29,470
the person you go interview with some

908
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:31,960
seven-year-old girl with a lollipop you

909
00:36:35,580 --> 00:36:34,060
can't it can't interview a UFO research

910
00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:35,590
you can't interview the witnesses but we

911
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:36,940
can find a little girl with a lollipop

912
00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:39,570
but the idea of aliens in her hand but

913
00:36:45,930 --> 00:36:43,500
but I I see I see we getting much more

914
00:36:50,190 --> 00:36:45,940
legitimate reporting now the New York

915
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:50,200
Times was very kind to the announcement

916
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:54,880
about Blink 182's UFO investigation I

917
00:36:58,920 --> 00:36:56,290
mean they treated it with as a

918
00:37:02,340 --> 00:36:58,930
legitimate story and I see more of that

919
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:02,350
going on in today's world yeah yeah I

920
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:04,210
think a lot has changed in just you know

921
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:06,910
since you know the pentagon article came

922
00:37:13,230 --> 00:37:10,090
out it just seems so much more

923
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:13,240
I don't know easy to talk about you know

924
00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:17,440
I spent the last weekend with a on an

925
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:20,430
island with the some of the friends

926
00:37:25,110 --> 00:37:22,510
next-door neighbor of some friends I was

927
00:37:28,530 --> 00:37:25,120
visiting and he was a he was a

928
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:28,540
commercial pilot with a 55,000 hours a

929
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:30,010
lot of international flights and all

930
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:32,410
that and you know I got up the courage

931
00:37:37,110 --> 00:37:34,390
to ask him if he had ever seen anything

932
00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:37,120
unusual and you know he basically went

933
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:39,160
into a couple of near crash stories and

934
00:37:44,340 --> 00:37:41,710
stuff like that but uh I still have a

935
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:44,350
you know under a certain mixture of

936
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:47,050
companies of you know kind of a hard

937
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:49,120
time you know bringing up hey do you

938
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:50,650
know what do you think about UFO

939
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:51,880
sometimes I feel comfortable with

940
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:54,400
someone and can say it and but it's it's

941
00:38:00,960 --> 00:37:56,260
still a little bit of that you know that

942
00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:00,970
pressure not to go there well when we

943
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:03,190
deployed to Iraq I mean almost everybody

944
00:38:09,090 --> 00:38:06,490
knew that was the UFO guy yeah but but

945
00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:09,100
the questions were legitimate and there

946
00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:10,390
were interest in what I had to say it

947
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:12,580
wasn't anybody really making fun of what

948
00:38:15,870 --> 00:38:14,320
I was doing and it might have been one

949
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,880
of two reasons one is because they were

950
00:38:19,230 --> 00:38:17,440
highly interested in what I had to say

951
00:38:22,770 --> 00:38:19,240
or I was one of the senior officers in

952
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:22,780
the battalion uh-huh so they they they

953
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:25,060
were a little bit intimidated by but

954
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:27,010
what are the interesting thing is while

955
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:30,370
in Iraq we had satellite feeds you know

956
00:38:35,490 --> 00:38:33,010
satellite television and they they we

957
00:38:37,170 --> 00:38:35,500
got the History Channel and a couple of

958
00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:37,180
guys a couple the NCOs came up to me one

959
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:38,830
day one know if I'd had if I had a

960
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:41,920
brother and I said why and so what we

961
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:43,510
would watch in this program on history

962
00:38:46,770 --> 00:38:45,250
the other day there was a guy who with

963
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:46,780
the same last name it looks an awful lot

964
00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:49,150
like you and I said yeah I would be

965
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:52,990
about 10 years ago so they had seen that

966
00:38:58,620 --> 00:38:56,650
but you know inside the inside that that

967
00:39:00,210 --> 00:38:58,630
community if somebody had a question

968
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:00,220
about it they would ask me and I would I

969
00:39:04,140 --> 00:39:01,600
would answer the question as best I

970
00:39:08,250 --> 00:39:04,150
could about what UFOs were nobody seemed

971
00:39:10,530 --> 00:39:08,260
to be really taken aback by by my

972
00:39:12,810 --> 00:39:10,540
interest in that topic we had another

973
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:12,820
guy who is very interested in NASCAR so

974
00:39:17,970 --> 00:39:15,370
he became the nascar guy and so I was

975
00:39:19,830 --> 00:39:17,980
just people had an expertise that they

976
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:19,840
brought to their military service and

977
00:39:23,490 --> 00:39:21,160
people who are interested in it would

978
00:39:25,170 --> 00:39:23,500
approach them to ask questions now that

979
00:39:26,370 --> 00:39:25,180
I didn't ask you this if you if you were

980
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:26,380
private do you think you would have been

981
00:39:32,070 --> 00:39:30,160
treated differently given no I don't

982
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:32,080
think so mmm-hmm I think it was I think

983
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:33,970
was just an interest in what was going

984
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:38,110
on and III think in the military we

985
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:40,090
respect those who have the knowledge

986
00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:42,130
regardless of the rank that they hold

987
00:39:48,330 --> 00:39:45,340
and I noticed that when we came back to

988
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,340
the United States there was a specialist

989
00:39:55,980 --> 00:39:51,280
who had worked in the joint operation

990
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:55,990
center for many many years and if there

991
00:40:01,080 --> 00:39:58,960
was a question about protocols they

992
00:40:02,610 --> 00:40:01,090
would ask him the question he was you

993
00:40:04,819 --> 00:40:02,620
know any for very low ranking enlisted

994
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:04,829
man and you'd have made

995
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:07,240
asking him questions about the specific

996
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,010
protocols because he was the subject

997
00:40:13,380 --> 00:40:11,920
matter expert and now that's the I was

998
00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:13,390
the kind of the big catchphrase in the

999
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,040
military for a while there was subject

1000
00:40:19,770 --> 00:40:16,960
matter matter expert who's your subject

1001
00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:19,780
matter expert and you go to that person

1002
00:40:26,339 --> 00:40:23,230
and ask the questions because he or she

1003
00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:26,349
should have those answers and the rank

1004
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:28,900
didn't really factor into that much

1005
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:30,880
because this was the person who had them

1006
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:33,520
had the answers sometimes the subject

1007
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:35,950
matter expert happened to be a major or

1008
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:38,170
a captain or a colonel

1009
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:39,609
and sometimes it happened to be a

1010
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:42,400
sergeant or a specialist or a private I

1011
00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:43,920
don't remember any privates but to me a

1012
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:45,790
specialist was the one that popped into

1013
00:40:52,589 --> 00:40:50,319
my mind because I I had seen officers

1014
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:52,599
asking him specific protocol questions

1015
00:40:58,500 --> 00:40:55,630
and how to move forward in a specific

1016
00:40:59,819 --> 00:40:58,510
task to get it done right so and he

1017
00:41:02,069 --> 00:40:59,829
would explain you know here's what we

1018
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:02,079
need to do mm-hmm

1019
00:41:06,930 --> 00:41:04,990
I've been having I had a couple shows

1020
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:06,940
kind of focused on the the Nimitz case

1021
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:10,390
and I also have Kevin day who was the

1022
00:41:17,010 --> 00:41:13,890
radar operator coming up in a few weeks

1023
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:17,020
and hopefully another witness he said he

1024
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:19,089
would try to get me another witness to

1025
00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:21,040
what was going on there but you know the

1026
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:25,750
military military encounters to me are

1027
00:41:32,339 --> 00:41:27,250
fascinating and you being a military

1028
00:41:35,790 --> 00:41:32,349
person you know do you think that there

1029
00:41:37,319 --> 00:41:35,800
is a lot more happening that you know I

1030
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,329
mean it seems to me now that I've had

1031
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:40,000
five or six military people on my show

1032
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:41,650
that I've talked about you know some

1033
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:45,150
type of encounter and I don't know if

1034
00:41:50,569 --> 00:41:48,250
you know because people are a lot of

1035
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:50,579
people are out in the elements is that

1036
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:54,730
one of the reasons why they see you know

1037
00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:56,530
possibly see UFOs or do you think

1038
00:42:01,050 --> 00:41:58,420
there's a connection any type of

1039
00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:01,060
connection with a military and UFO

1040
00:42:05,339 --> 00:42:03,849
encounters one thing you have to

1041
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:05,349
remember if you're outside you're

1042
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:07,210
probably more likely to see one than if

1043
00:42:14,809 --> 00:42:09,730
you're inside looking or looking down at

1044
00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:14,819
your cell phone right yeah but yeah but

1045
00:42:18,579 --> 00:42:18,220
when I well I talked to a few people

1046
00:42:21,849 --> 00:42:18,589
that were

1047
00:42:24,729 --> 00:42:21,859
evolved in in sightings and some of them

1048
00:42:27,339 --> 00:42:24,739
were kind of funny I talking to a

1049
00:42:29,469 --> 00:42:27,349
colonel about the Kinross disappearance

1050
00:42:31,150 --> 00:42:29,479
and the first thing he said to me as

1051
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,160
well let me tell you a story and he said

1052
00:42:36,729 --> 00:42:33,920
we were flying up toward Canton and we

1053
00:42:38,709 --> 00:42:36,739
saw this glow on the horizon we thought

1054
00:42:40,299 --> 00:42:38,719
it was the moon coming up and as we got

1055
00:42:41,620 --> 00:42:40,309
closer we realized it's not the moon

1056
00:42:42,849 --> 00:42:41,630
because the moon was in a different part

1057
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:42,859
of the sky and there was this orange

1058
00:42:46,029 --> 00:42:44,930
glow that really bothered us till we got

1059
00:42:50,410 --> 00:42:46,039
close to enough discovered it was a

1060
00:42:52,209 --> 00:42:50,420
horse fire and so you know they got to

1061
00:42:55,089 --> 00:42:52,219
the point where you know they're talking

1062
00:42:56,979 --> 00:42:55,099
UFO but they've got an explanation right

1063
00:43:00,249 --> 00:42:56,989
the other the other story told me is not

1064
00:43:04,029 --> 00:43:00,259
Kinross and that's the the f-89 that

1065
00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:04,039
disappeared off radar the the object the

1066
00:43:08,319 --> 00:43:07,160
UFO blip and the f-89 blip merged and

1067
00:43:10,209 --> 00:43:08,329
everybody thought well they flew over it

1068
00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:10,219
or under it's that sort of thing but the

1069
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:12,920
blips never separated in the single blip

1070
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:15,650
left so what happened to the f-89 that

1071
00:43:19,479 --> 00:43:17,930
was in 1953 and we still don't know Wow

1072
00:43:22,420 --> 00:43:19,489
the odds are I probably went into the

1073
00:43:23,950 --> 00:43:22,430
Lake Superior but we don't know that and

1074
00:43:25,479 --> 00:43:23,960
what he was telling me was that there

1075
00:43:27,609 --> 00:43:25,489
were two school thoughts at Kinross at

1076
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,619
the time because he had been there and

1077
00:43:30,759 --> 00:43:29,119
one of them was that it was a UFO and it

1078
00:43:33,059 --> 00:43:30,769
took him the other school which was

1079
00:43:35,859 --> 00:43:33,069
probably the more prominent school of

1080
00:43:37,959 --> 00:43:35,869
thought was that the the airplane had

1081
00:43:41,609 --> 00:43:37,969
crashed had gone into the lake but he

1082
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:41,619
was saying that he was up in a fighter

1083
00:43:48,519 --> 00:43:45,200
doing their thing and were approached by

1084
00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:48,529
a UFO I was pacing them and he said to

1085
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:50,420
the wingman his wingman okay we're gonna

1086
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:51,950
count to three and we're gonna turn into

1087
00:43:57,249 --> 00:43:54,049
it to see what happens and I thought

1088
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,259
well this is really a dumb plan but

1089
00:44:01,120 --> 00:43:59,359
that's what their their plan was and he

1090
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:01,130
counted three they turned toward the UFO

1091
00:44:06,209 --> 00:44:03,440
and it just sped off and so you've got

1092
00:44:08,709 --> 00:44:06,219
these guys who are Kinross at the time

1093
00:44:11,529 --> 00:44:08,719
after the disappearance of the f-89

1094
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:11,539
talking about another legitimate UFO

1095
00:44:16,209 --> 00:44:13,910
sighting and what they did they don't

1096
00:44:18,519 --> 00:44:16,219
know what they saw or what happened but

1097
00:44:21,249 --> 00:44:18,529
that that was what he told me so I've

1098
00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:21,259
talked to military pilots military

1099
00:44:25,479 --> 00:44:23,180
personnel who have told me their UFO

1100
00:44:27,489 --> 00:44:25,489
stories my own experience no I didn't

1101
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:27,499
see anything yeah I did have a top

1102
00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:29,089
secret clearance as an intelligence

1103
00:44:32,350 --> 00:44:31,940
officer in the Air Force and then in the

1104
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:32,360
guard

1105
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:34,130
we went to Iraq so I was seeing

1106
00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:36,950
top-secret I could see top-secret stuff

1107
00:44:42,130 --> 00:44:39,260
most of stuff we saw was classified

1108
00:44:44,830 --> 00:44:42,140
secret and that's the other thing you

1109
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:44,840
awful field talks about top secrets and

1110
00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:46,730
all this stuff and they don't understand

1111
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,120
that the the difference between secret

1112
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:52,720
and top secret is just astronomical

1113
00:44:57,790 --> 00:44:55,040
secret stuff can be stored in a state

1114
00:45:00,060 --> 00:44:57,800
safe or locking file cabinet not not a

1115
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:00,070
tin file cabinet but one like that

1116
00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:03,020
top-secret requires a vault you've got

1117
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:05,060
to sign it out you've got to make

1118
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,330
notations where it's gone and where and

1119
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:09,920
when it comes back I mean it's very very

1120
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:12,310
strict on the dealing with top secrets

1121
00:45:17,380 --> 00:45:15,530
in my military experience I never saw

1122
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:17,390
top secret document that dealt with UFOs

1123
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:20,510
never I saw secret documents that did

1124
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:22,730
and the sightings were pretty mundane

1125
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:24,440
the kind of sightings that we get all

1126
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:26,210
the time the time the kind of sightings

1127
00:45:30,180 --> 00:45:28,310
that we see pilots seeing the things

1128
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:30,190
people on the ground seeing of things I

1129
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:33,530
talked to people who told me their UFO

1130
00:45:40,450 --> 00:45:36,910
stories but it was not in any kind of

1131
00:45:41,890 --> 00:45:40,460
official capacity so you know it's just

1132
00:45:43,210 --> 00:45:41,900
well that's an interesting story and

1133
00:45:47,110 --> 00:45:43,220
I'll just file it away in case it comes

1134
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:47,120
up later on so you know it it it I think

1135
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:49,490
it just depends on what your mission is

1136
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:52,880
where you are what you're doing that you

1137
00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:55,310
happen to see these things and I think

1138
00:45:59,680 --> 00:45:57,020
if you look at the statistics that

1139
00:46:01,420 --> 00:45:59,690
you'll find out that most UFO sightings

1140
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:01,430
take place between like 6:00 p.m. and

1141
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:03,410
night and 10 o'clock at night

1142
00:46:09,610 --> 00:46:05,810
well why would that be well there's more

1143
00:46:11,050 --> 00:46:09,620
people outside mmm you know yeah and and

1144
00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:11,060
when when do you get most of the

1145
00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:11,990
sightings will you get them in the

1146
00:46:16,330 --> 00:46:14,230
summertime why more people are outside

1147
00:46:18,190 --> 00:46:16,340
yeah you know in today's environment

1148
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:18,200
there may be outside but they're still

1149
00:46:23,050 --> 00:46:21,050
staring at the damn phone yes all right

1150
00:46:24,970 --> 00:46:23,060
so that's like anything but but I I

1151
00:46:26,940 --> 00:46:24,980
think if you look at the statistics you

1152
00:46:30,340 --> 00:46:26,950
know and you break them down that way

1153
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:30,350
you know it makes sense about when are

1154
00:46:33,220 --> 00:46:32,000
you most likely to see something and

1155
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:33,230
what are you doing when you see it when

1156
00:46:37,150 --> 00:46:35,450
you're outside doing something the one

1157
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:37,160
thing that I think I remembered in it

1158
00:46:41,830 --> 00:46:39,410
this was like decades ago that somebody

1159
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:41,840
had analyzed at the date you're most

1160
00:46:45,610 --> 00:46:44,450
likely to see a UFO was I think April

1161
00:46:49,420 --> 00:46:45,620
24th

1162
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:49,430
and the and the I think the day of the

1163
00:46:54,190 --> 00:46:52,130
week was Wednesday well if I remember

1164
00:46:56,170 --> 00:46:54,200
cry don't remember exactly but it you

1165
00:46:57,550 --> 00:46:56,180
but it just struck me you know and then

1166
00:47:00,100 --> 00:46:57,560
you started about breaking it on time

1167
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:00,110
well it's after 6:00 p.m. at night and

1168
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:03,530
prior to midnight say you see it because

1169
00:47:06,610 --> 00:47:05,210
the people are outside looking up so

1170
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:06,620
when you ask the question I think that

1171
00:47:10,270 --> 00:47:08,930
the reason you get the military part of

1172
00:47:12,070 --> 00:47:10,280
the reason you get the military pilots

1173
00:47:16,030 --> 00:47:12,080
involved of course is the Air Defense

1174
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:16,040
Command and the requirement to check on

1175
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:18,890
aircraft penetrating the air defenses

1176
00:47:21,580 --> 00:47:20,810
owns around the coastal areas of the

1177
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:21,590
United States

1178
00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:23,450
so something penetrates that and is not

1179
00:47:27,460 --> 00:47:24,740
a commercial flight and it's not a

1180
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:27,470
flight that has been logged on through

1181
00:47:32,170 --> 00:47:30,050
the various ways you do those sorts of

1182
00:47:33,790 --> 00:47:32,180
things like the FAA then the Air Force

1183
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:33,800
scrambles to take a look at it to see

1184
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:35,930
what it is oftentimes most times it

1185
00:47:42,490 --> 00:47:37,850
turns out to be a commercial aircraft

1186
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:42,500
it's off its course or somebody you know

1187
00:47:48,370 --> 00:47:44,480
didn't file the proper flight plan when

1188
00:47:49,690 --> 00:47:48,380
I was in flight school and we I didn't

1189
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:49,700
know this because I was like 18 years

1190
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:53,330
old but we were flying the darn th 55

1191
00:47:57,970 --> 00:47:54,740
which has a service ceiling in like

1192
00:48:00,310 --> 00:47:57,980
twelve thousand feet and but you could

1193
00:48:02,670 --> 00:48:00,320
get it higher if you if you worked at it

1194
00:48:05,830 --> 00:48:02,680
and you the ways you could defeat that

1195
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:05,840
and I think I got up to 15,000 feet once

1196
00:48:09,940 --> 00:48:08,210
and then came down from it and I

1197
00:48:13,210 --> 00:48:09,950
realized that a little later that the

1198
00:48:15,370 --> 00:48:13,220
FAA requires a flight plan for everybody

1199
00:48:18,820 --> 00:48:15,380
over 14,000 feet so I was in violation

1200
00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:18,830
of FAA regulations unknowingly but I

1201
00:48:23,110 --> 00:48:20,630
don't know if I came up on writer and

1202
00:48:25,660 --> 00:48:23,120
then disappeared or or what exactly

1203
00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:25,670
happened but I think if they if it the

1204
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:27,380
radar operator it was going on and knew

1205
00:48:30,490 --> 00:48:28,910
what was going on in the area so I don't

1206
00:48:32,830 --> 00:48:30,500
know what those damn helicopter students

1207
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,840
trying to see what he can do that sort

1208
00:48:36,370 --> 00:48:34,880
of thing so I mean you know you look at

1209
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:36,380
that sort of things so you'd expect the

1210
00:48:40,990 --> 00:48:38,090
military pilots to maybe see something

1211
00:48:42,730 --> 00:48:41,000
more often these pilots who fly late at

1212
00:48:43,930 --> 00:48:42,740
night may see something more often

1213
00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:43,940
because it's much easier to see the

1214
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:45,260
things at night then it would be during

1215
00:48:52,590 --> 00:48:49,370
the daylight hours you know so I think I

1216
00:48:56,170 --> 00:48:52,600
don't think there's really any

1217
00:48:57,850 --> 00:48:56,180
conspiracy going on about that was where

1218
00:48:58,840 --> 00:48:57,860
they're looking for at the military more

1219
00:49:02,080 --> 00:48:58,850
so than the

1220
00:49:04,810 --> 00:49:02,090
world yeah by the way April 24th

1221
00:49:08,410 --> 00:49:04,820
this year is on a Wednesday so everyone

1222
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:08,420
ought to be outside after after 6 p.m.

1223
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:10,010
after 6 p.m. right

1224
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:13,490
and speaking of helicopters and you know

1225
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:15,650
the the one case I think is really

1226
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:19,040
intriguing is the Larry coin case

1227
00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:22,850
incident back in 73 or whenever it was a

1228
00:49:30,430 --> 00:49:26,660
helicopter and what do you think of that

1229
00:49:33,610 --> 00:49:30,440
case that's first of all I had to laugh

1230
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:33,620
at Philip Glass because he wrote in his

1231
00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:35,690
book when he was degrading the case

1232
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:38,360
downgrading the case denigrating the

1233
00:49:45,490 --> 00:49:41,680
case he was he was concerned because

1234
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:45,500
coin took over the controls from was it

1235
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:50,810
Jesse who was flying it and he but he

1236
00:49:55,930 --> 00:49:53,570
didn't he said well as the the the craft

1237
00:49:58,140 --> 00:49:55,940
was the aircraft the helicopter was

1238
00:50:02,980 --> 00:49:58,150
going down plunging down and he couldn't

1239
00:50:06,580 --> 00:50:02,990
he couldn't do anything about it

1240
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,590
and then the suddenly they popped up to

1241
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:08,480
3,500 feet in classes well maybe Jesse

1242
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:09,950
took over the collective's and pulled up

1243
00:50:13,150 --> 00:50:11,210
on it so that's because he could see

1244
00:50:15,220 --> 00:50:13,160
what was going on I said no not the way

1245
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:15,230
it works I knew they had the same they

1246
00:50:20,110 --> 00:50:17,270
had the same training I did and the one

1247
00:50:21,820 --> 00:50:20,120
thing you always did if I was a pilot in

1248
00:50:23,650 --> 00:50:21,830
command and I wanted a co-pilot to fly I

1249
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:23,660
would have my hands on the control I'd

1250
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,240
say you've got it he would put his hands

1251
00:50:30,580 --> 00:50:27,920
on the control and said I've got it I

1252
00:50:32,770 --> 00:50:30,590
would release them mm-hmm or if I wanted

1253
00:50:35,140 --> 00:50:32,780
to take control I would say I've got it

1254
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:35,150
put my hands on the control he would

1255
00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:37,970
release it and so Jesse who was in the

1256
00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:40,550
other seat wouldn't have been pulling up

1257
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,020
on the collective without informing

1258
00:50:45,610 --> 00:50:44,240
Cohen what he was doing hmm it just

1259
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:45,620
wouldn't work that way he would have

1260
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:46,760
said yeah he would have he would have

1261
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:48,470
either mentioned it to him or he would

1262
00:50:52,930 --> 00:50:49,970
have taken the controls cuz he sees the

1263
00:50:55,450 --> 00:50:52,940
aircraft is about to crash he says I got

1264
00:50:57,790 --> 00:50:55,460
it and and I was an experienced with

1265
00:51:00,490 --> 00:50:57,800
Mike co-pilots as an aircraft commander

1266
00:51:03,580 --> 00:51:00,500
in Vietnam was the copilot took the

1267
00:51:04,690 --> 00:51:03,590
aircraft away and made a dive because he

1268
00:51:06,190 --> 00:51:04,700
thought we were gonna about to hit

1269
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:06,200
another airplane Wow

1270
00:51:12,059 --> 00:51:08,720
and he just said I got it I said you got

1271
00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:12,069
it let go of and he he dove and then

1272
00:51:14,339 --> 00:51:13,390
I said what are you doing and he said I

1273
00:51:15,809 --> 00:51:14,349
thought we were gonna hit that air place

1274
00:51:18,209 --> 00:51:15,819
and now I have it in sight it's like you

1275
00:51:18,689 --> 00:51:18,219
know half a mile away don't worry about

1276
00:51:22,319 --> 00:51:18,699
it

1277
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:22,329
aircraft was in danger and he took

1278
00:51:26,459 --> 00:51:24,160
controls I mean we were trained on how

1279
00:51:28,949 --> 00:51:26,469
to do that yeah so when class said that

1280
00:51:30,989 --> 00:51:28,959
Jesse had pulled up on the collective I

1281
00:51:33,779 --> 00:51:30,999
keep reaching down for the collective

1282
00:51:36,479 --> 00:51:33,789
because it was with your left hand the

1283
00:51:40,289 --> 00:51:36,489
collective pitch which controls up and

1284
00:51:41,459 --> 00:51:40,299
down it just wouldn't have happened that

1285
00:51:43,289 --> 00:51:41,469
way and both of them were military

1286
00:51:44,819 --> 00:51:43,299
pilots both of them had been trained the

1287
00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:44,829
same way I was through the same flight

1288
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:46,630
schools I knew exactly what was going on

1289
00:51:51,059 --> 00:51:48,880
but I think it's a very good case you've

1290
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:51,069
got four military people I talked to one

1291
00:51:58,380 --> 00:51:55,930
of the guys I in fact I had him on my

1292
00:52:00,269 --> 00:51:58,390
radio show to talk no I invited Tommy

1293
00:52:02,519 --> 00:52:00,279
didn't want to do it but I talked to him

1294
00:52:05,069 --> 00:52:02,529
about that and what he'd seen and how

1295
00:52:08,009 --> 00:52:05,079
the things things went in the aircraft

1296
00:52:09,359 --> 00:52:08,019
so I got a better idea I did I did a I

1297
00:52:12,479 --> 00:52:09,369
think I did a thing on my blog about

1298
00:52:15,029 --> 00:52:12,489
that and what he had seen and how that

1299
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,039
happened class in his analysis ignored

1300
00:52:21,180 --> 00:52:17,920
one of the one of the crewmen who had

1301
00:52:23,339 --> 00:52:21,190
seen the object out the left side of the

1302
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:23,349
aircraft as it passed by the left side

1303
00:52:26,579 --> 00:52:24,910
and then it came up on the right side of

1304
00:52:29,489 --> 00:52:26,589
the aircraft so it circled around the

1305
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:29,499
aircraft so class was completely wrong

1306
00:52:31,650 --> 00:52:30,609
on that but I think it's a very good

1307
00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:31,660
case I don't think there's a good

1308
00:52:36,509 --> 00:52:33,880
explanation for it right there was a

1309
00:52:40,349 --> 00:52:36,519
fellow there was a fellow who said that

1310
00:52:41,699 --> 00:52:40,359
it was every sealing aircraft that was

1311
00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:41,709
supposed to be rare refueling a

1312
00:52:47,729 --> 00:52:45,849
helicopter in the area and the air

1313
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:47,739
refueling aircraft got too close to the

1314
00:52:51,029 --> 00:52:49,690
helicopter well you have no air

1315
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:51,039
refueling capability on a Huey

1316
00:52:56,430 --> 00:52:54,130
helicopter for one thing and in the

1317
00:52:58,859 --> 00:52:56,440
United States Air Refueling operations

1318
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:58,869
take place in certain areas and this

1319
00:53:02,819 --> 00:53:00,880
wasn't one of the areas where it would

1320
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:02,829
take place so the explanation kind of

1321
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:05,049
failed on those points but I mean it was

1322
00:53:08,670 --> 00:53:06,609
a legitimate attempt to explain the

1323
00:53:10,499 --> 00:53:08,680
sighting he thought he had a good a good

1324
00:53:12,749 --> 00:53:10,509
explanation and he pointed out there and

1325
00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:12,759
we take we took a look at it nice when I

1326
00:53:16,979 --> 00:53:15,190
say we I mean me and talk to some of the

1327
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:16,989
people about it we decided well it's an

1328
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:18,430
interesting theory but I don't think it

1329
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:20,410
works based on the facts so I think it's

1330
00:53:28,770 --> 00:53:25,210
a very good case based on the

1331
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:28,780
testimonies by the crew member who were

1332
00:53:33,180 --> 00:53:29,410
on board

1333
00:53:34,770 --> 00:53:33,190
I know Jessie's explanations were a

1334
00:53:36,780 --> 00:53:34,780
little bit different than the rest of

1335
00:53:39,060 --> 00:53:36,790
the crew he didn't quite agree with some

1336
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:39,070
of the things they said but you go back

1337
00:53:42,030 --> 00:53:40,210
and you take a look at the original

1338
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:42,040
statements and you find his statement is

1339
00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:45,970
more in line with their statements as a

1340
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:50,500
statement later on sort of diverged from

1341
00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:52,870
what they had to say Kevin we got to go

1342
00:53:57,450 --> 00:53:54,760
to break and when we come back for the

1343
00:53:59,850 --> 00:53:57,460
new listener I'm will let's go over like

1344
00:54:01,590 --> 00:53:59,860
a nutshell of what actually transpired

1345
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:01,600
during that sighting

1346
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:03,900
all right everyone my guest tonight is

1347
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:06,940
Kevin Randall and we'll be right back

1348
00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:12,640
right after these messages all right

1349
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:13,230
we're back

1350
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:17,110
my guest is Kevin Randall and before the

1351
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:19,690
break we were talking about the Larry

1352
00:54:25,050 --> 00:54:22,810
coin case 1975 I can't remember exactly

1353
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:25,060
what that is but I was thinking you know

1354
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:26,890
for the new listeners to the show and

1355
00:54:32,450 --> 00:54:28,510
people are just getting interested in

1356
00:54:35,310 --> 00:54:32,460
UFOs do you know the basic story on on

1357
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:35,320
what happened I could say it but I think

1358
00:54:43,650 --> 00:54:40,110
I might miss some misses some things or

1359
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:43,660
say it wrong actually for a lot of it

1360
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:45,610
well as I've said before I know

1361
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:49,650
everything okay that's true yeah yes I

1362
00:54:58,350 --> 00:54:53,130
believe it was 1975 was October of 1973

1363
00:55:02,190 --> 00:54:58,360
and it was a uh-1 helicopter I've got

1364
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:02,200
like I've got like 1500 hours from 1400

1365
00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:04,450
hours and the uh-1 helicopter 1,100

1366
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:06,670
combat time so I'm familiar with the

1367
00:55:14,340 --> 00:55:08,710
aircraft of how it works they were on a

1368
00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:14,350
they had been to Dayton Ohio I figure

1369
00:55:18,330 --> 00:55:16,750
we're in denial yes but they were they

1370
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:18,340
had gone for a flight physical and they

1371
00:55:24,780 --> 00:55:19,810
were flying back to their their home

1372
00:55:26,570 --> 00:55:24,790
station around Madison Ohio and as they

1373
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:26,580
were traveling along flying along

1374
00:55:31,260 --> 00:55:28,810
minding their own business one of the

1375
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:31,270
one of the crew men saw a light coming

1376
00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:34,450
at him and it approached on the left

1377
00:55:38,860 --> 00:55:36,760
side it went down the side of the

1378
00:55:40,510 --> 00:55:38,870
aircraft and disappeared

1379
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:40,520
in a few moments later the other Eric

1380
00:55:44,410 --> 00:55:42,530
other crewmen said that it was coming up

1381
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:44,420
on the right side heading toward them

1382
00:55:50,980 --> 00:55:49,130
and that the at that point I think

1383
00:55:53,350 --> 00:55:50,990
Jessie was flying the aircraft coin was

1384
00:55:55,180 --> 00:55:53,360
sitting there letting him do that as the

1385
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:55,190
air as the thing came close he said I've

1386
00:56:00,370 --> 00:55:57,370
got it he took over control the aircraft

1387
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:00,380
the the object sort of stopped over the

1388
00:56:07,630 --> 00:56:04,970
over the helicopter and big green object

1389
00:56:08,830 --> 00:56:07,640
that they could see and watched it for a

1390
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:08,840
minute

1391
00:56:13,180 --> 00:56:11,510
they the aircraft seemed to be

1392
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:13,190
descending at that point their aircraft

1393
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:14,690
the helicopter seemed to be sitting

1394
00:56:22,570 --> 00:56:18,410
descending because going didn't want to

1395
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:22,580
collide with this object then there was

1396
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:24,920
some kind there was there's some kind of

1397
00:56:28,930 --> 00:56:26,810
radio interference as well they had been

1398
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:28,940
talking to the Mansfield Airport and

1399
00:56:33,610 --> 00:56:31,760
they lost radio communication with it so

1400
00:56:35,890 --> 00:56:33,620
they because they were asking if there's

1401
00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:35,900
other traffic in the area I mean the

1402
00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:38,510
other other aircraft in the area the

1403
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:42,590
object I then shot off and as it did

1404
00:56:48,630 --> 00:56:46,190
coin notice they were in a climb and he

1405
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:48,640
couldn't arrest the climb and I know

1406
00:56:53,260 --> 00:56:51,050
what you do in a situation like that you

1407
00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:53,270
put the collective full down and if that

1408
00:56:56,890 --> 00:56:54,680
doesn't work you roll off the throttle

1409
00:56:57,490 --> 00:56:56,900
do what was called the flight idle

1410
00:56:59,380 --> 00:56:57,500
detent

1411
00:57:00,790 --> 00:56:59,390
and if that doesn't work the last the

1412
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:00,800
last thing you do is kick the pedals out

1413
00:57:06,730 --> 00:57:02,690
of trim the aircraft outer trim so it

1414
00:57:07,660 --> 00:57:06,740
would fall faster if it wasn't working I

1415
00:57:09,340 --> 00:57:07,670
don't know if you went through all those

1416
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:09,350
procedures or not I had a situation

1417
00:57:15,340 --> 00:57:12,410
where flying in a formation I was in the

1418
00:57:16,990 --> 00:57:15,350
slot position and there were aircraft on

1419
00:57:18,970 --> 00:57:17,000
each side of me and behind me and we

1420
00:57:21,130 --> 00:57:18,980
were descending into an LZ in the air my

1421
00:57:23,170 --> 00:57:21,140
aircraft was floating and that's what I

1422
00:57:24,370 --> 00:57:23,180
had to do I rolled off the throttle I

1423
00:57:26,170 --> 00:57:24,380
had the collective hold on a roll off

1424
00:57:30,340 --> 00:57:26,180
the throttle like the pedals out of trim

1425
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:30,350
and as that happened you know I was able

1426
00:57:33,970 --> 00:57:32,150
to stay in my position the flight

1427
00:57:36,580 --> 00:57:33,980
couldn't break either way which is what

1428
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:36,590
I would have done and we got close to

1429
00:57:40,510 --> 00:57:37,970
the ground the fleed flares out and

1430
00:57:43,690 --> 00:57:40,520
everything everything was okay so they

1431
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:43,700
you know I speculate that they did that

1432
00:57:47,740 --> 00:57:45,920
coin had done the same thing trying to

1433
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:47,750
keep the aircraft to stop you said he

1434
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:50,330
felt a thump they were 3,500 feet he

1435
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:51,920
felt a thumpin he was able to regain the

1436
00:57:54,490 --> 00:57:52,460
air the

1437
00:57:56,650 --> 00:57:54,500
control the aircraft flew on to their

1438
00:57:58,780 --> 00:57:56,660
home station landed and made the report

1439
00:58:00,880 --> 00:57:58,790
about what it was said the compass was

1440
00:58:02,980 --> 00:58:00,890
spinning wildly I think Jesse said

1441
00:58:04,810 --> 00:58:02,990
they've been replaced it they replaced

1442
00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:04,820
it was a magnetic compass as opposed to

1443
00:58:10,359 --> 00:58:08,240
ATF and I think Jesse said you know

1444
00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:10,369
we've replaced the compass but coin said

1445
00:58:14,770 --> 00:58:13,220
we did that and I thought what happened

1446
00:58:16,510 --> 00:58:14,780
said it didn't work properly still I

1447
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:16,520
think coin said it's after they replaced

1448
00:58:21,010 --> 00:58:19,190
it worked okay Jesse was saying it

1449
00:58:22,359 --> 00:58:21,020
didn't work properly the second time

1450
00:58:24,190 --> 00:58:22,369
they replaced it because there was some

1451
00:58:27,010 --> 00:58:24,200
kind of interference in the aircraft I

1452
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:27,020
know when you put a magnetic compass in

1453
00:58:29,710 --> 00:58:28,160
an aircraft you have to do what they

1454
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:29,720
call swinging the compass which means

1455
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:32,570
you're lying on the air on airfields

1456
00:58:35,890 --> 00:58:34,010
there's what's called a compass road

1457
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:35,900
your sight set and set your aircraft

1458
00:58:39,660 --> 00:58:37,730
down there and you use that to a line

1459
00:58:42,970 --> 00:58:39,670
magnetic north so that you know exactly

1460
00:58:46,780 --> 00:58:42,980
you you can you know where the compass

1461
00:58:49,420 --> 00:58:46,790
is so it's magnetic north and they the

1462
00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:49,430
compass was spinning I think Jenny's I'd

1463
00:58:53,650 --> 00:58:50,990
Minh learned that after they had

1464
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:53,660
replaced a compass it worked okay so you

1465
00:58:58,329 --> 00:58:56,510
know another effect of being close to

1466
00:59:00,910 --> 00:58:58,339
the UFO there were some people on the

1467
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:00,920
ground that saw the green light and saw

1468
00:59:04,210 --> 00:59:02,330
the helicopter and that sort of things

1469
00:59:06,849 --> 00:59:04,220
so they're witnesses on the ground as

1470
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:06,859
well so it wasn't just the aircrew but

1471
00:59:09,940 --> 00:59:08,570
all the aircrew but other witnesses saw

1472
00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:09,950
the thing as well there was no radar

1473
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:13,369
returned but in today's world with

1474
00:59:17,950 --> 00:59:15,890
stealth aircraft who cares you know that

1475
00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:17,960
yeah stealth aircraft kind of renders

1476
00:59:25,570 --> 00:59:23,260
that the no radar return argument moot

1477
00:59:26,740 --> 00:59:25,580
yeah that's kind of the basics of it

1478
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:26,750
yeah yeah yeah

1479
00:59:32,470 --> 00:59:28,520
yeah you covered that really well and

1480
00:59:35,620 --> 00:59:32,480
yeah that's a real real good one I think

1481
00:59:39,490 --> 00:59:35,630
and and very scary you know you talked

1482
00:59:41,890 --> 00:59:39,500
about that military I forget what what

1483
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:41,900
aircraft was where they merged or it

1484
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:44,839
looked like they merged on radar and of

1485
00:59:50,050 --> 00:59:47,200
you know probably went into the lake

1486
00:59:51,849 --> 00:59:50,060
that that's what reminded me of this

1487
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:51,859
because you know it was almost like they

1488
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:55,250
were going to be you know abducted the

1489
00:59:59,680 --> 00:59:57,200
whole unit you know in a way it was

1490
01:00:01,810 --> 00:59:59,690
similar well there's there's there's any

1491
01:00:04,690 --> 01:00:01,820
number of aircraft who have disappeared

1492
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:04,700
chasing UFOs and there's other other

1493
01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:05,730
encounters

1494
01:00:11,660 --> 01:00:08,940
UFOs that caused some kind of problems

1495
01:00:13,460 --> 01:00:11,670
with the era interestingly I've noticed

1496
01:00:15,410 --> 01:00:13,470
you know we have the the stories of cars

1497
01:00:17,090 --> 01:00:15,420
being stalled by close approach to UFO

1498
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:17,100
engines are stalled the lights fade out

1499
01:00:22,820 --> 01:00:20,090
and the radios fade away we've had close

1500
01:00:25,130 --> 01:00:22,830
approaches of UFOs to aircraft where it

1501
01:00:27,380 --> 01:00:25,140
is affected the electronic systems the

1502
01:00:30,290 --> 01:00:27,390
avionics of the aircraft and yet it

1503
01:00:32,750 --> 01:00:30,300
doesn't stall the engines hmm and yeah

1504
01:00:34,070 --> 01:00:32,760
yeah you think you think back to the day

1505
01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:34,080
the Earth Stood Still where Michael

1506
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:36,000
Rennie is going to have to figure out

1507
01:00:40,490 --> 01:00:38,310
some kind of demonstration of power in

1508
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:40,500
Sam Jaffe said well little demonstration

1509
01:00:44,660 --> 01:00:42,150
or what anybody get hurt and see shut

1510
01:00:46,130 --> 01:00:44,670
off all the electricity but but they

1511
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,140
said even even the exceptions were

1512
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:47,760
interesting you know airplanes in flight

1513
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:50,130
hospitals things like that you know

1514
01:00:54,020 --> 01:00:51,510
didn't lose their electrical power it

1515
01:00:56,450 --> 01:00:54,030
was just everybody else I know yeah it's

1516
01:01:00,560 --> 01:00:56,460
one of the things I think about is we

1517
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:00,570
don't have a case where an aircraft

1518
01:01:06,650 --> 01:01:02,310
accident was caused by the

1519
01:01:08,060 --> 01:01:06,660
electromagnetic effect and I I couch it

1520
01:01:09,620 --> 01:01:08,070
in those terms specifically because

1521
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:09,630
there's there's the Australian case

1522
01:01:15,140 --> 01:01:11,610
where the pilot disappear and of course

1523
01:01:16,940 --> 01:01:15,150
f-89 that that disappeared as well but

1524
01:01:18,860 --> 01:01:16,950
you've got close approaches of UFOs that

1525
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:18,870
do affect the avionics and things like

1526
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:21,690
that but don't shut down the engines so

1527
01:01:25,580 --> 01:01:22,920
that's the kind of an interesting thing

1528
01:01:27,170 --> 01:01:25,590
the other night immune other here's

1529
01:01:28,820 --> 01:01:27,180
another point as well the

1530
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:28,830
electromagnetic effects that shut down

1531
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:30,570
the engines the Condon committee and

1532
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:33,530
others have said well we know of no

1533
01:01:41,060 --> 01:01:37,770
mechanism to suppress an engine working

1534
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:41,070
you know that way and then when the UFO

1535
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:42,480
leaves the engine begins to work

1536
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:44,730
properly again but I went back and I

1537
01:01:52,340 --> 01:01:48,690
studied several hundred of these cases

1538
01:01:54,830 --> 01:01:52,350
of engines being stalled and what I what

1539
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:54,840
I saw was a lot of times I said well the

1540
01:01:58,820 --> 01:01:56,610
engine worked properly after the UFO

1541
01:02:01,460 --> 01:01:58,830
left but it didn't say it started

1542
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:01,470
spontaneously and you look closely you

1543
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:03,930
find more cases as well once the UFO is

1544
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:06,540
gone I was able to start the car yeah so

1545
01:02:11,090 --> 01:02:08,610
they've started the engine so it's not

1546
01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:11,100
like the engine comes back spontaneously

1547
01:02:16,190 --> 01:02:13,980
but the driver had to take some action

1548
01:02:18,110 --> 01:02:16,200
to get the end to get the engine started

1549
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:18,120
there are cases where they say it

1550
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:19,650
started spontaneously

1551
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:21,810
but the majority of the cases seemed to

1552
01:02:25,790 --> 01:02:23,490
be that the driver took some kind of

1553
01:02:27,370 --> 01:02:25,800
action to start the engine even though

1554
01:02:30,260 --> 01:02:27,380
the radio came back the lights

1555
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:30,270
brightened up again the driver had to do

1556
01:02:35,090 --> 01:02:32,970
something to to start to start the

1557
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:35,100
engine of the vehicle so yes you know

1558
01:02:38,180 --> 01:02:36,480
kind of one of the things that I've

1559
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:38,190
noticed is you study some of these cases

1560
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:41,130
in depth yeah you know I never thought

1561
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:43,890
of those cases always really interest me

1562
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:49,530
too and actually the fact that the the

1563
01:02:53,780 --> 01:02:51,330
engine in the airplane I never thought

1564
01:02:57,350 --> 01:02:53,790
of that that why does everything else

1565
01:02:59,120 --> 01:02:57,360
get affected but not that and you know I

1566
01:03:02,630 --> 01:02:59,130
had mentioned on the show a couple of

1567
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:02,640
times over in Russia this it's basically

1568
01:03:08,180 --> 01:03:05,850
my girlfriend's father you know had an

1569
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:08,190
encounter where everyone in this

1570
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:10,050
mountain passed their engine stalled and

1571
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:11,730
they went over to the side of the road

1572
01:03:14,690 --> 01:03:12,810
and got out and watched this

1573
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:14,700
cigar-shaped thing you know with

1574
01:03:19,610 --> 01:03:17,250
portholes flowed over all the engines

1575
01:03:21,110 --> 01:03:19,620
were stalled in every car and after the

1576
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:21,120
thing went over everyone was able to

1577
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:23,310
start up their car and go on you know so

1578
01:03:30,740 --> 01:03:27,200
it's those cases are just fascinating

1579
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:30,750
what Len Springfield talked about his

1580
01:03:36,350 --> 01:03:33,330
encounter with it it said it started the

1581
01:03:38,930 --> 01:03:36,360
engines of the c-47 to operate roughly

1582
01:03:41,870 --> 01:03:38,940
and the copilot said you know prepare to

1583
01:03:44,030 --> 01:03:41,880
a ditch and then of course the three

1584
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:44,040
objects left and the engines moved out

1585
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:45,210
and they were able to continue their

1586
01:03:49,550 --> 01:03:47,610
trip to Japan it was right after the end

1587
01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:49,560
of world war two by the way so uh and

1588
01:03:54,580 --> 01:03:51,270
they were leaving from Iwo Jima to go to

1589
01:03:57,350 --> 01:03:54,590
Japan right after the end of the war and

1590
01:04:00,850 --> 01:03:57,360
but there but the aircraft didn't crash

1591
01:04:04,250 --> 01:04:00,860
and the things moved away so that the

1592
01:04:05,830 --> 01:04:04,260
engines moved out so you know I look at

1593
01:04:09,860 --> 01:04:05,840
all of that sort of thing as a way of

1594
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:09,870
you know is there is there um patterns

1595
01:04:14,060 --> 01:04:12,810
new sightings and things like that one

1596
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:14,070
of the things I've noticed in something

1597
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:15,570
I was putting together there was a

1598
01:04:22,340 --> 01:04:18,450
sighting in Cherry Creek New York in

1599
01:04:23,900 --> 01:04:22,350
1965 and they found after the UFO was

1600
01:04:26,420 --> 01:04:23,910
gone they found some oily like stub

1601
01:04:28,460 --> 01:04:26,430
substance on the in the field and they

1602
01:04:30,779 --> 01:04:28,470
found some sort of like skid marks in

1603
01:04:32,609 --> 01:04:30,789
the past years

1604
01:04:35,069 --> 01:04:32,619
and I thought you know there's a number

1605
01:04:37,229 --> 01:04:35,079
of cases where the physical evidence

1606
01:04:40,169 --> 01:04:37,239
like that has been found but nobody's

1607
01:04:41,309 --> 01:04:40,179
ever length them before you know I got

1608
01:04:43,769 --> 01:04:41,319
me the thing I knew we need a big

1609
01:04:46,499 --> 01:04:43,779
database I mean a big spreadsheet where

1610
01:04:48,209 --> 01:04:46,509
you can quickly look at that sort of

1611
01:04:50,459 --> 01:04:48,219
thing but we mentioned the flatwoods

1612
01:04:53,999 --> 01:04:50,469
case earlier because of the project

1613
01:04:55,679 --> 01:04:54,009
Bluebook in the real case they did find

1614
01:04:58,859 --> 01:04:55,689
some skid marks on the ground and some

1615
01:05:01,079 --> 01:04:58,869
oily or they substance hmm left behind

1616
01:05:03,059 --> 01:05:01,089
so we've got this case from 1952 and now

1617
01:05:04,769 --> 01:05:03,069
we have a case from 1965 of the same

1618
01:05:07,169 --> 01:05:04,779
sort of thing as gone there was another

1619
01:05:09,390 --> 01:05:07,179
case called the tin can man from

1620
01:05:10,829 --> 01:05:09,400
Minnesota I think also 1965 where they

1621
01:05:12,809 --> 01:05:10,839
found an oily substance and there's

1622
01:05:14,219 --> 01:05:12,819
another case where they found the skid

1623
01:05:15,749 --> 01:05:14,229
marks and the oily substances and I

1624
01:05:17,249 --> 01:05:15,759
can't find the case because I didn't

1625
01:05:20,130 --> 01:05:17,259
write it down at the time because of I

1626
01:05:21,449 --> 01:05:20,140
just noted it but I can't find it out to

1627
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:21,459
go back through the files to see if I

1628
01:05:25,199 --> 01:05:23,650
can find the specific case but and then

1629
01:05:29,219 --> 01:05:25,209
I started looking for cases like that

1630
01:05:31,259 --> 01:05:29,229
where you've got a skid marks and you

1631
01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:31,269
know like two feet long more 2-foot

1632
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:34,689
3-foot long marks may be side by side

1633
01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:37,599
parallel or one after another that sort

1634
01:05:42,269 --> 01:05:40,089
of thing in in the fields where the UFOs

1635
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:42,279
were seen and you know I don't know if

1636
01:05:47,789 --> 01:05:44,049
anybody's ever put that kind of thing

1637
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:47,799
together was it Ted Ted Phillips had

1638
01:05:52,739 --> 01:05:50,400
done an analysis of landing traces

1639
01:05:54,659 --> 01:05:52,749
mm-hmm where he put it together I think

1640
01:05:57,390 --> 01:05:54,669
he had four four thousand five thousand

1641
01:05:59,669 --> 01:05:57,400
cases where he said if you tell me the

1642
01:06:01,979 --> 01:05:59,679
landing gear I'll tell you the shape of

1643
01:06:03,929 --> 01:06:01,989
the object hmm so you know that was kind

1644
01:06:05,039 --> 01:06:03,939
of an interesting thing for him to say

1645
01:06:06,539 --> 01:06:05,049
or if you tell me the shape of the

1646
01:06:10,349 --> 01:06:06,549
object I'll tell you the kind of landing

1647
01:06:13,979 --> 01:06:10,359
gear at had and so he was able to deduce

1648
01:06:15,569 --> 01:06:13,989
a pattern between the shape of the

1649
01:06:16,829 --> 01:06:15,579
object and the landing gear patterns

1650
01:06:19,799 --> 01:06:16,839
that you would see if there was finding

1651
01:06:22,439 --> 01:06:19,809
your patterns left behind and he had

1652
01:06:24,899 --> 01:06:22,449
about four thousand cases the one of the

1653
01:06:26,459 --> 01:06:24,909
problems that we would run into with

1654
01:06:29,759 --> 01:06:26,469
some of those landing trace cases is

1655
01:06:31,949 --> 01:06:29,769
oftentimes the craft isn't seen on the

1656
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:31,959
ground the craft is seen in proximity

1657
01:06:35,459 --> 01:06:34,089
and so there's an assumption that

1658
01:06:37,049 --> 01:06:35,469
there's a correlation between the

1659
01:06:40,319 --> 01:06:37,059
markings on the ground and the craft

1660
01:06:43,380 --> 01:06:40,329
seen in the sky and that may not be a

1661
01:06:46,700 --> 01:06:43,390
valid scientific conclusion to draw

1662
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:46,710
but by the same token you know as I said

1663
01:06:52,890 --> 01:06:51,280
Philips was able to deduce the landing

1664
01:06:54,450 --> 01:06:52,900
gear based on the shape of the craft and

1665
01:06:56,730 --> 01:06:54,460
vice versa sighs it's kind of an

1666
01:06:59,130 --> 01:06:56,740
interesting thing that I think we need

1667
01:07:02,640 --> 01:06:59,140
more of in ufology if we're going to

1668
01:07:04,620 --> 01:07:02,650
move us to a more scientific realm is to

1669
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:04,630
look at some of these cases that may be

1670
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:08,700
widely separated in time and distance

1671
01:07:15,660 --> 01:07:12,130
but have some of the same physical

1672
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,670
evidence attributes that maybe would

1673
01:07:20,420 --> 01:07:17,200
help us understand things a little bit

1674
01:07:24,270 --> 01:07:20,430
better yeah I think things like that

1675
01:07:26,370 --> 01:07:24,280
should be noted I reminds me of I know

1676
01:07:28,890 --> 01:07:26,380
there was this pictures of a very

1677
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:28,900
unusual craft that are something like 20

1678
01:07:33,450 --> 01:07:30,730
years apart I can't remember ones in

1679
01:07:35,190 --> 01:07:33,460
France and I just can't remember where

1680
01:07:37,290 --> 01:07:35,200
the other one was taken and it looks

1681
01:07:39,420 --> 01:07:37,300
like the exact same craft very

1682
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:39,430
McMinnville McMinnville or maybe des

1683
01:07:42,510 --> 01:07:41,680
McMinnville yeah but the problem the

1684
01:07:43,950 --> 01:07:42,520
problem with that

1685
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,960
I think the French crab fix French

1686
01:07:47,490 --> 01:07:46,000
picture was taken in 1954 so it's only

1687
01:07:49,470 --> 01:07:47,500
you know it's like four years apart oh

1688
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:49,480
it's four years okay but there's but

1689
01:07:53,940 --> 01:07:50,710
there's no good source for the French

1690
01:07:56,310 --> 01:07:53,950
picture we know we know who took the

1691
01:07:58,110 --> 01:07:56,320
pictures in McMinnville mm-hmm you know

1692
01:08:00,810 --> 01:07:58,120
we know all that all that information

1693
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:00,820
about it but with the the French picture

1694
01:08:05,370 --> 01:08:03,490
we don't have all of that information so

1695
01:08:07,500 --> 01:08:05,380
it becomes a little bit problematic but

1696
01:08:09,060 --> 01:08:07,510
that's exactly the sort of thing and

1697
01:08:11,790 --> 01:08:09,070
that's the other thing you know how come

1698
01:08:13,140 --> 01:08:11,800
we when we see pictures of UFOs of

1699
01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:13,150
course what we have to remember is about

1700
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:15,100
99 percent of them were taken by teenage

1701
01:08:24,510 --> 01:08:17,850
boys and 99 percent of those are hoaxes

1702
01:08:29,010 --> 01:08:24,520
but we do not have pictures that where

1703
01:08:31,020 --> 01:08:29,020
the same object kind of reappears in in

1704
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:31,030
obvious a regular pattern but not

1705
01:08:35,490 --> 01:08:32,890
necessarily regular but regularly but

1706
01:08:37,770 --> 01:08:35,500
but reappears in different places at

1707
01:08:40,530 --> 01:08:37,780
different times we don't really have any

1708
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:40,540
good photographs like that I think the

1709
01:08:45,780 --> 01:08:42,690
problem the problem is this course back

1710
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:45,790
when you up yo F o--'s first began

1711
01:08:50,580 --> 01:08:48,000
visiting us as we say in the modern era

1712
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:50,590
not everybody had cameras nobody we

1713
01:08:55,890 --> 01:08:52,510
travelled with cameras and and and

1714
01:08:57,899 --> 01:08:55,900
people were afraid of burning up film

1715
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:57,909
for something that might not come

1716
01:09:03,120 --> 01:08:59,920
so they didn't take pictures unlike the

1717
01:09:05,879 --> 01:09:03,130
ubiquitous cellphone with its 26

1718
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:05,889
megapixel cameras bit embedded in it but

1719
01:09:08,879 --> 01:09:07,210
they don't see the UFOs because they're

1720
01:09:11,849 --> 01:09:08,889
busy looking at the phone as opposed ups

1721
01:09:13,340 --> 01:09:11,859
in the sky yeah that means that one

1722
01:09:15,149 --> 01:09:13,350
thing that I've always wanted is a

1723
01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:15,159
photographic case where you've got

1724
01:09:18,510 --> 01:09:16,750
independent witnesses at two or three

1725
01:09:20,999 --> 01:09:18,520
different locations shooting the same

1726
01:09:22,769 --> 01:09:21,009
object and if you have that you could

1727
01:09:24,570 --> 01:09:22,779
get good information about the size of

1728
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:24,580
the object the height that it was and

1729
01:09:28,740 --> 01:09:26,650
the speed it was moving and you can you

1730
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:28,750
can triangulate from that point but we

1731
01:09:33,209 --> 01:09:31,359
don't have a case like that we've had

1732
01:09:35,999 --> 01:09:33,219
we've got we've got cases where we have

1733
01:09:39,419 --> 01:09:36,009
people in multiple locations seeing a

1734
01:09:43,220 --> 01:09:39,429
similar thing Levelland Texas in 1957

1735
01:09:46,140 --> 01:09:43,230
stalling the car engines and you've got

1736
01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:46,150
witnesses I know witnesses witnesses at

1737
01:09:50,490 --> 01:09:48,940
least 13 separate locations reporting

1738
01:09:52,769 --> 01:09:50,500
the same thing independently to the

1739
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:52,779
sheriff or the police department level

1740
01:09:59,100 --> 01:09:57,250
and Texas but but by 1957 everybody was

1741
01:10:01,050 --> 01:09:59,110
so busy arguing with the Air Force about

1742
01:10:02,939 --> 01:10:01,060
what was real and what was not that

1743
01:10:05,189 --> 01:10:02,949
nobody was bothering to investigate the

1744
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:05,199
case in depth and we would have much

1745
01:10:10,020 --> 01:10:08,530
better information had we not had those

1746
01:10:11,970 --> 01:10:10,030
sort of arguments Kehoe said well there

1747
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,980
were nine people who saw the object and

1748
01:10:15,419 --> 01:10:13,360
the air force is now there was only

1749
01:10:17,430 --> 01:10:15,429
three people and you go through the air

1750
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:17,440
force file and the documentation

1751
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:19,330
available you find people at 13 separate

1752
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:21,010
locations it saw this thing and had it

1753
01:10:24,689 --> 01:10:22,480
interact with the environment and

1754
01:10:26,879 --> 01:10:24,699
there's now information that suggests

1755
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:26,889
the sheriff who said well I saw the red

1756
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:28,449
light in the distance I didn't get close

1757
01:10:32,070 --> 01:10:30,400
actually got close enough for it to

1758
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:32,080
stall his car engine and that's based on

1759
01:10:35,490 --> 01:10:33,730
what he when his family said but he had

1760
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:35,500
also told him when the Air Force asked

1761
01:10:40,290 --> 01:10:37,870
me not to talk about it and oftentimes

1762
01:10:42,510 --> 01:10:40,300
the Air Force would ask people well you

1763
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:42,520
know don't talk about your sighting not

1764
01:10:48,709 --> 01:10:44,170
threatening them with anyway just ask

1765
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:48,719
him not to talk and they wouldn't they

1766
01:10:54,899 --> 01:10:51,010
clammed up at that point

1767
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:54,909
sheriff Wilcox from from Roswell said

1768
01:10:59,640 --> 01:10:57,130
that when people would reporters called

1769
01:11:01,020 --> 01:10:59,650
him after the event cease well I I'm

1770
01:11:03,090 --> 01:11:01,030
working with those boys out at the base

1771
01:11:04,379 --> 01:11:03,100
and I can't really talk about it didn't

1772
01:11:06,379 --> 01:11:04,389
say anything about being threatened or

1773
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:06,389
any of that I just said I you know I

1774
01:11:11,340 --> 01:11:09,520
can't talk about it so you know we've

1775
01:11:11,700 --> 01:11:11,350
got those problems and ufology as well

1776
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:11,710
which

1777
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:13,210
kind of a divergence from where we were

1778
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:16,930
going hey I've had a couple of questions

1779
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,210
come in the chat rooms quite active

1780
01:11:23,190 --> 01:11:21,280
tonight and I haven't really looked for

1781
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,200
any questions in there yet I did catch

1782
01:11:27,780 --> 01:11:25,600
one earlier that I wrote down but if

1783
01:11:30,510 --> 01:11:27,790
someone just emailed me earlier and

1784
01:11:34,530 --> 01:11:30,520
asked what you thought about the Aurora

1785
01:11:36,209 --> 01:11:34,540
Texas case which I thought was I don't

1786
01:11:39,930 --> 01:11:36,219
know if I want to use the word debunked

1787
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:39,940
but that's Elaine's yeah it's a hoax

1788
01:11:46,110 --> 01:11:42,850
it's a hoax well it was explained right

1789
01:11:48,270 --> 01:11:46,120
it was a it was a hoax it was it just a

1790
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:48,280
hoax nothing happened nothing happened

1791
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:50,410
what but but here's the interesting part

1792
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:51,610
that people don't realize

1793
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:53,650
number one is the the the reporter who

1794
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,930
initially reported it did it because he

1795
01:11:59,640 --> 01:11:57,280
wanted people to become interested in

1796
01:12:01,200 --> 01:11:59,650
Aurora Texas that was his hometown he

1797
01:12:03,630 --> 01:12:01,210
was trying to get people interested in

1798
01:12:06,060 --> 01:12:03,640
Texas because the railroad had gone had

1799
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:06,070
bypassed Aurora but the other thing is

1800
01:12:10,260 --> 01:12:07,930
within ten years of this event which

1801
01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:10,270
took place in April I think April 17th

1802
01:12:15,180 --> 01:12:13,390
of 19 1897 within ten years of that

1803
01:12:16,350 --> 01:12:15,190
there were two books written about the

1804
01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:16,360
history of Wise County

1805
01:12:23,340 --> 01:12:19,750
Aurora's and wise County neither of

1806
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:23,350
those books mentioned this event I'm

1807
01:12:30,690 --> 01:12:25,690
thinking if there was a crash of some

1808
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:30,700
kind of bizarre ship an airship in

1809
01:12:37,050 --> 01:12:35,410
Aurora Texas in 1897 without the CIA and

1810
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:37,060
the Air Force and everybody trying to

1811
01:12:42,270 --> 01:12:39,370
suppress the information it would have

1812
01:12:43,650 --> 01:12:42,280
been mentioned in those books Wow here's

1813
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:43,660
here's something interesting that

1814
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:46,330
happened in Aurora back in 1897 and it's

1815
01:12:49,290 --> 01:12:47,650
not mentioned there and that to me is

1816
01:12:51,959 --> 01:12:49,300
the real killer for the Aurora Texas

1817
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:51,969
case not to mention other facts that

1818
01:13:00,090 --> 01:12:57,280
came out the signal the TJ Weems the

1819
01:13:01,380 --> 01:13:00,100
signal officer that they quote in a lot

1820
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:01,390
of the stories he turned out to be the

1821
01:13:07,530 --> 01:13:04,810
local blacksmith and for some reason in

1822
01:13:09,180 --> 01:13:07,540
in 1897 they when you when you thought

1823
01:13:12,750 --> 01:13:09,190
signal officer you were thinking

1824
01:13:16,140 --> 01:13:12,760
intelligence a signal officer is he's

1825
01:13:18,270 --> 01:13:16,150
interested in communications as opposed

1826
01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:18,280
to gathering intelligence he was

1827
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:20,710
gathering he was he was but there's

1828
01:13:25,470 --> 01:13:23,650
there's nothing has ever been found I

1829
01:13:27,750 --> 01:13:25,480
doubt my blog

1830
01:13:31,740 --> 01:13:27,760
pictures of the graveyard where the

1831
01:13:33,990 --> 01:13:31,750
weather the 97 Eric Sheffer hoaxes the

1832
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:34,000
great great Alexander Hamilton kept

1833
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:37,360
napping heard out to be a hoax hmm and

1834
01:13:42,030 --> 01:13:40,000
Jerry Clark interviewed the daughter of

1835
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:42,040
Alexander Hamilton yeah not the guy

1836
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:44,770
killed by rigging kidnapped and then

1837
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:46,930
they found the the remains of it in a

1838
01:13:51,900 --> 01:13:49,600
field like it had been dropped from the

1839
01:13:55,290 --> 01:13:51,910
sky but she was really interesting in

1840
01:13:56,670 --> 01:13:55,300
the days of cattle mutilations but Jerry

1841
01:13:58,350 --> 01:13:56,680
Clark talked to the daughter and she

1842
01:13:59,850 --> 01:13:58,360
said no it didn't happen my father

1843
01:14:03,960 --> 01:13:59,860
belonged to a liar's club and they were

1844
01:14:08,130 --> 01:14:03,970
making stuff up but then then Eddie

1845
01:14:13,860 --> 01:14:08,140
board found a story in a newspaper from

1846
01:14:16,350 --> 01:14:13,870
1897 in isoquant Kansas I think it was

1847
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:16,360
anyway he found a story in there where

1848
01:14:22,350 --> 01:14:18,130
Hamilton and Senators and I made the

1849
01:14:23,970 --> 01:14:22,360
whole thing up so that so you've got you

1850
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:23,980
know the documentation the story was

1851
01:14:28,340 --> 01:14:25,450
made up so enough a lot of the stories

1852
01:14:30,300 --> 01:14:28,350
you go back in the airship stories

1853
01:14:34,260 --> 01:14:30,310
there's a lot of more the people are

1854
01:14:36,350 --> 01:14:34,270
talking about their buildings airships

1855
01:14:38,660 --> 01:14:36,360
so they go to Cuba to bomb the Spanish

1856
01:14:42,420 --> 01:14:38,670
because this is just prior to the

1857
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:42,430
spanish-american war in 1898 yeah there

1858
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:44,410
was a wonderful story that I read in the

1859
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:46,210
Cedar Rapids Gazette and had a story an

1860
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:48,489
article of the thing that had crashed in

1861
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:52,510
Waterloo Iowa more landed mergency

1862
01:14:56,190 --> 01:14:54,130
landed there and the professor who had

1863
01:14:58,350 --> 01:14:56,200
built the thing was killed and they were

1864
01:14:59,820 --> 01:14:58,360
talking about it and there was an

1865
01:15:01,530 --> 01:14:59,830
illustration in the Cedar Rapids Gazette

1866
01:15:04,140 --> 01:15:01,540
that I and of course used a number of

1867
01:15:07,229 --> 01:15:04,150
times with permission of the Gazette and

1868
01:15:09,930 --> 01:15:07,239
I did a book called I think it's the

1869
01:15:12,090 --> 01:15:09,940
alien mysteries book and one of the

1870
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:12,100
editors jobs was to find photographs for

1871
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:14,890
the book the guy found a photograph of

1872
01:15:20,370 --> 01:15:16,930
this thing that had landed in Waterloo

1873
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:20,380
Iowa he had a photograph of it and so it

1874
01:15:23,670 --> 01:15:21,760
appears in the book and I put it up on

1875
01:15:24,990 --> 01:15:23,680
my blog too so you can see the

1876
01:15:28,290 --> 01:15:25,000
illustration that was done by the

1877
01:15:30,510 --> 01:15:28,300
Gazette and the the actual photograph of

1878
01:15:32,610 --> 01:15:30,520
the thing but then one of the guys one

1879
01:15:34,110 --> 01:15:32,620
of the guys was recognized as a Waterloo

1880
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:34,120
resident the whole thing collapsed at

1881
01:15:36,180 --> 01:15:35,650
that point because they realized it was

1882
01:15:38,220 --> 01:15:36,190
a hoax

1883
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:38,230
get your garbage off our fairgrounds

1884
01:15:41,090 --> 01:15:38,850
type thing

1885
01:15:43,670 --> 01:15:41,100
but I went fascinated me was it was an

1886
01:15:44,930 --> 01:15:43,680
actual photograph and I never thought

1887
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:44,940
you go to Waterloo and look at the

1888
01:15:48,230 --> 01:15:46,560
courier to see if there was a photograph

1889
01:15:49,610 --> 01:15:48,240
of the thing because they would but

1890
01:15:52,490 --> 01:15:49,620
there was there was a photograph of it

1891
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:52,500
kind of blew me away yeah yeah

1892
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:56,400
what are you know along those lines out

1893
01:16:01,580 --> 01:15:58,560
there you know cuz what happens is

1894
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:01,590
sometimes once a story is out there it's

1895
01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:03,570
out there so long that people just take

1896
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:04,560
it as fact

1897
01:16:09,950 --> 01:16:08,250
you know without without really looking

1898
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:09,960
into it are there some other fairly

1899
01:16:15,980 --> 01:16:11,970
sizeable stories like that that you're

1900
01:16:19,220 --> 01:16:15,990
aware of that you know you know like for

1901
01:16:23,330 --> 01:16:19,230
instance I'm trying to remember there's

1902
01:16:25,970 --> 01:16:23,340
an early one that that was claimed I've

1903
01:16:27,470 --> 01:16:25,980
heard claim to be a hoax you know right

1904
01:16:31,370 --> 01:16:27,480
after the Kenneth Arnold sighting or

1905
01:16:33,470 --> 01:16:31,380
just before it Laurie Island yeah Mari

1906
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:33,480
Ireland is that a hoax do you know yeah

1907
01:16:37,220 --> 01:16:35,760
absolutely yeah see there are there's a

1908
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:37,230
couple like that that ended up being

1909
01:16:41,810 --> 01:16:39,210
hoaxes and that's another one that

1910
01:16:45,770 --> 01:16:41,820
almost you know is down in you know the

1911
01:16:48,530 --> 01:16:45,780
UFO lore as a solid case if you if you

1912
01:16:49,730 --> 01:16:48,540
go back and you the wonderful thing with

1913
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:49,740
the Internet is you can check all of

1914
01:16:55,070 --> 01:16:52,260
this stuff out now and what you have to

1915
01:16:56,780 --> 01:16:55,080
do is look at multiple sources you can't

1916
01:16:59,180 --> 01:16:56,790
find a single source and read about

1917
01:17:01,580 --> 01:16:59,190
Maureen Island and determine well that's

1918
01:17:03,260 --> 01:17:01,590
the truth you have to look at multiple

1919
01:17:05,930 --> 01:17:03,270
sources and see what they have to say

1920
01:17:07,580 --> 01:17:05,940
and compare all that information and

1921
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:07,590
documentation and then decide for

1922
01:17:10,970 --> 01:17:08,970
yourself whether it's a hoax or I

1923
01:17:12,890 --> 01:17:10,980
believe more Islanders are hoaxes it

1924
01:17:14,810 --> 01:17:12,900
turns out the harbor patrolmen which

1925
01:17:19,060 --> 01:17:14,820
gives them some sort of status we're not

1926
01:17:21,620 --> 01:17:19,070
harbor patrolmen they were in fact

1927
01:17:24,380 --> 01:17:21,630
scavengers skeleton salvage operators in

1928
01:17:25,940 --> 01:17:24,390
Puget Sound and they would take their

1929
01:17:27,770 --> 01:17:25,950
boat around and they would pull logs out

1930
01:17:29,210 --> 01:17:27,780
of Puget Sound or wreckage they could

1931
01:17:31,670 --> 01:17:29,220
find out a Puget Sound and take it in

1932
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:31,680
and sell it this is the story of they

1933
01:17:36,440 --> 01:17:34,560
saw six you doughnut-shaped UFOs right

1934
01:17:38,330 --> 01:17:36,450
flying in formation and one of them was

1935
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:38,340
spewing metal out because it seemed to

1936
01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:39,810
have been in some kind of trouble and

1937
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:42,450
the metal fell on their boat and it

1938
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:44,850
injured the guy son Harold dolls son I

1939
01:17:50,540 --> 01:17:47,250
think it was killed the dog killed the

1940
01:17:52,459 --> 01:17:50,550
dog and but people have found Harold

1941
01:17:54,410 --> 01:17:52,469
Dahl son he's not never happened

1942
01:17:56,300 --> 01:17:54,420
you know you go to the hospital and you

1943
01:17:58,430 --> 01:17:56,310
can't find any records of the kid being

1944
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:58,440
treated you know all those sorts of

1945
01:18:01,810 --> 01:17:59,520
things you have to look at all of that

1946
01:18:04,310 --> 01:18:01,820
sort of things the sad thing about it is

1947
01:18:08,030 --> 01:18:04,320
Kenneth Arnold was asked to investigate

1948
01:18:10,220 --> 01:18:08,040
the case by Ray Palmer who was a editor

1949
01:18:12,170 --> 01:18:10,230
of a science fiction magazine amazing

1950
01:18:13,700 --> 01:18:12,180
stories I think it was and they had been

1951
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:13,710
doing the shaver mystery which was this

1952
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:15,930
idea that there were the flying saucers

1953
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:17,310
came out of the Inner Earth and there

1954
01:18:20,450 --> 01:18:19,050
were good robots and there were bad

1955
01:18:22,700 --> 01:18:20,460
robots and they were fighting some kind

1956
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:22,710
of war and all the bad stuff that

1957
01:18:28,150 --> 01:18:25,290
happened on earth the surface of the

1958
01:18:31,610 --> 01:18:28,160
earth was the result of these evil

1959
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:31,620
robots and when the flying saucer thing

1960
01:18:34,580 --> 01:18:32,250
started

1961
01:18:37,250 --> 01:18:34,590
Palmer thought ah validation for my

1962
01:18:42,979 --> 01:18:37,260
stories about about this sort of thing

1963
01:18:44,780 --> 01:18:42,989
and so he wanted Kenneth Arnold to

1964
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:44,790
investigate the Mauri Island story when

1965
01:18:48,260 --> 01:18:46,410
he learned about it Marnell went to

1966
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:48,270
Tacoma Washington to interview the guys

1967
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:53,010
he called to Air Force officers who had

1968
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:54,690
been there to know about the air force's

1969
01:18:59,920 --> 01:18:57,090
office was actually - who had come up to

1970
01:19:03,110 --> 01:18:59,930
investigate his sighting Davidson and

1971
01:19:07,430 --> 01:19:03,120
and and and I can't remember the other

1972
01:19:09,140 --> 01:19:07,440
guy's name brown brown he called them to

1973
01:19:10,820 --> 01:19:09,150
help him with the investigation they got

1974
01:19:11,450 --> 01:19:10,830
up there interviewed all and Chrisman

1975
01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:11,460
who was the other

1976
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,460
hardwick trohman and realized it was a

1977
01:19:17,900 --> 01:19:16,080
hoax right away and the medals they had

1978
01:19:20,030 --> 01:19:17,910
recovered were just kind of useless slag

1979
01:19:25,310 --> 01:19:20,040
they didn't want to take the samples

1980
01:19:27,979 --> 01:19:25,320
back to their Fort Fort ham of Hamilton

1981
01:19:30,500 --> 01:19:27,989
Air Force Base but they were pressed on

1982
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:30,510
it they got in their b25 to fly back to

1983
01:19:33,860 --> 01:19:32,250
Hamilton and the plane crash so of

1984
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:33,870
course then there's all speculation that

1985
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:35,850
the aircraft was shot down to keep the

1986
01:19:40,370 --> 01:19:38,130
samples out of the hands of the military

1987
01:19:42,260 --> 01:19:40,380
and that sort of thing before they took

1988
01:19:44,420 --> 01:19:42,270
off to go back home they talked to the

1989
01:19:47,660 --> 01:19:44,430
operations officer at the base where

1990
01:19:49,310 --> 01:19:47,670
they landed the b25 and said 'no they

1991
01:19:50,510 --> 01:19:49,320
said it was a hoax they didn't say

1992
01:19:52,430 --> 01:19:50,520
anything to arnold because they didn't

1993
01:19:53,570 --> 01:19:52,440
want to embarrass him they liked arnold

1994
01:19:55,729 --> 01:19:53,580
they thought arnold had a you know I

1995
01:19:59,150 --> 01:19:55,739
don't know had a good sighting in Arnold

1996
01:20:01,130 --> 01:19:59,160
Arnold was just out of his depth and so

1997
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:01,140
you know that Maury island turned out to

1998
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:03,239
be a hoax when you began talking about

1999
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:05,730
it the sighting that came to mind was

2000
01:20:08,420 --> 01:20:06,450
the child

2001
01:20:10,460 --> 01:20:08,430
we did siding from 1948 where the two

2002
01:20:12,770 --> 01:20:10,470
airline pilot saw cigar shaped crafts

2003
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:12,780
you buy them with a lighted cockpit and

2004
01:20:18,740 --> 01:20:14,960
square windows along the side and the

2005
01:20:21,620 --> 01:20:18,750
first reaction I think of Hynek was that

2006
01:20:23,180 --> 01:20:21,630
he sounded like a bolide to him and then

2007
01:20:24,890 --> 01:20:23,190
how they didn't sue it they didn't had

2008
01:20:26,330 --> 01:20:24,900
didn't believe it a lot of the military

2009
01:20:28,130 --> 01:20:26,340
got into it and thought this was a

2010
01:20:29,690 --> 01:20:28,140
really solid siding and it was kind of

2011
01:20:31,910 --> 01:20:29,700
one of the precipitating events for the

2012
01:20:36,110 --> 01:20:31,920
great estimate of the situation that we

2013
01:20:38,630 --> 01:20:36,120
hear about in ufology in 1968

2014
01:20:41,510 --> 01:20:38,640
I think the zahn for re-entered it was a

2015
01:20:43,970 --> 01:20:41,520
Soviet spacecraft it and it fell and it

2016
01:20:45,940 --> 01:20:43,980
broke up most people knew what it was

2017
01:20:47,930 --> 01:20:45,950
saw what it was but a lot of people

2018
01:20:49,820 --> 01:20:47,940
thought it was some kind of a

2019
01:20:52,430 --> 01:20:49,830
cigar-shaped craft with soot windows

2020
01:20:55,610 --> 01:20:52,440
along the side and what happens is this

2021
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:55,620
the thing begins to break up apart and

2022
01:20:59,960 --> 01:20:57,930
it strings out you get this idea that's

2023
01:21:01,340 --> 01:20:59,970
a cigar shaped with windows along the

2024
01:21:03,650 --> 01:21:01,350
side and some of the drawings that were

2025
01:21:06,140 --> 01:21:03,660
made of the zahn for reentry in which we

2026
01:21:08,990 --> 01:21:06,150
know it was resembled to a great extent

2027
01:21:12,380 --> 01:21:09,000
the drawings made by childs and witted I

2028
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:12,390
think that case which was I guess one of

2029
01:21:17,450 --> 01:21:14,370
the founding foundations of the UFO

2030
01:21:20,420 --> 01:21:17,460
field is now explained as a bolide there

2031
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:20,430
was a on YouTube something called meteor

2032
01:21:24,380 --> 01:21:22,050
compilation I think it's three minutes

2033
01:21:27,170 --> 01:21:24,390
and 19 seconds that I found and what it

2034
01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:27,180
was somebody put together meteor Falls

2035
01:21:30,860 --> 01:21:29,760
that had been recorded on video and you

2036
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:30,870
look at some of those and you're

2037
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:32,970
thinking you know as a thing breaks up

2038
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:34,800
and if the lights begin to strike out

2039
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:37,890
bring out if you just catch a glimpse of

2040
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:40,290
it well in psychology something called

2041
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:41,970
Gestalt where you put all these things

2042
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:45,090
together in your mind you see an image

2043
01:21:48,830 --> 01:21:46,770
even though there's no image there you

2044
01:21:50,390 --> 01:21:48,840
can't try to you try to group the whole

2045
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:50,400
thing together so if you just get a

2046
01:21:54,170 --> 01:21:52,050
quick look at it it's going to look like

2047
01:21:55,790 --> 01:21:54,180
a lighted cockpit with square windows

2048
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:55,800
along the side and I think that's a

2049
01:22:00,560 --> 01:21:57,570
legitimate explanation for child's

2050
01:22:02,180 --> 01:22:00,570
witted which does not diminish the UFO

2051
01:22:04,100 --> 01:22:02,190
field at all it's just that here we have

2052
01:22:07,220 --> 01:22:04,110
an explanation for this case that was

2053
01:22:08,750 --> 01:22:07,230
basically unexplained for the longest

2054
01:22:10,610 --> 01:22:08,760
time at least in the world of the

2055
01:22:12,890 --> 01:22:10,620
ufology the Air Force wrote it off as a

2056
01:22:15,380 --> 01:22:12,900
bolide then changed it and then wrote it

2057
01:22:17,330 --> 01:22:15,390
off as a bolide again but I think the

2058
01:22:19,780 --> 01:22:17,340
point isn't that and it's that respect

2059
01:22:21,310 --> 01:22:19,790
the Air Force got that one right they

2060
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:21,320
right on that one but that's a case it

2061
01:22:26,830 --> 01:22:25,850
was kind of a classic UFO case that we

2062
01:22:29,830 --> 01:22:26,840
now have I think a legitimate

2063
01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:29,840
explanation for so we can look at those

2064
01:22:32,830 --> 01:22:31,040
sort of things and that's the thing we

2065
01:22:34,480 --> 01:22:32,840
have to do is go back and look at these

2066
01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:34,490
things carefully when you get back to

2067
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:37,910
1897 you have - well - so you have to

2068
01:22:41,500 --> 01:22:39,650
remember that the reporting there was a

2069
01:22:43,390 --> 01:22:41,510
little bit looser than it is today and

2070
01:22:45,370 --> 01:22:43,400
then I think you know fake news and I

2071
01:22:47,350 --> 01:22:45,380
mean we see example after example that

2072
01:22:50,140 --> 01:22:47,360
in today's world where the reporters

2073
01:22:54,220 --> 01:22:50,150
just run off on tangents without knowing

2074
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:54,230
the full story and after after days we

2075
01:22:59,830 --> 01:22:55,970
begin to filter things out and realize

2076
01:23:02,200 --> 01:22:59,840
what's going on but in 1918 97

2077
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:02,210
it was the Hearst Corporation was

2078
01:23:06,730 --> 01:23:04,850
pushing for a war with Spain and when

2079
01:23:08,230 --> 01:23:06,740
the main blew up in the harbor they

2080
01:23:09,700 --> 01:23:08,240
pushed the story that it was sabotage

2081
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:09,710
and that kind of dragged us into that

2082
01:23:14,140 --> 01:23:12,890
war so you had a lot of that you had a

2083
01:23:17,050 --> 01:23:14,150
lot of the stuff with the reporters

2084
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:17,060
we're making things up and the great the

2085
01:23:20,260 --> 01:23:18,890
great airship is a prime example of that

2086
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:20,270
that the reporters would make up the

2087
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:21,410
stories to have something in the

2088
01:23:25,570 --> 01:23:23,330
newspaper there were telegraphers in

2089
01:23:27,250 --> 01:23:25,580
Iowa who kept the story alive you know

2090
01:23:28,660 --> 01:23:27,260
one one troll egg here in a town would

2091
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:28,670
say well it's over here and it's heading

2092
01:23:32,140 --> 01:23:30,050
toward the next town and pretty soon the

2093
01:23:33,910 --> 01:23:32,150
telegrapher there would come on is yep

2094
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:33,920
it's over here now it's heading to a

2095
01:23:38,170 --> 01:23:36,110
different town and so they we kind of

2096
01:23:39,940 --> 01:23:38,180
track it around the state of Iowa but it

2097
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:39,950
was all made up by the telegraphers just

2098
01:23:43,810 --> 01:23:41,810
having a little bit of fun and other

2099
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:43,820
reporters out that was that was the was

2100
01:23:50,050 --> 01:23:46,880
that the late 19th century that was 1897

2101
01:23:51,940 --> 01:23:50,060
the 80 great airship of 1897 Jerry Clark

2102
01:23:54,190 --> 01:23:51,950
and I disagree on this I think it was

2103
01:23:56,260 --> 01:23:54,200
all bogus I don't think there was ever

2104
01:23:58,330 --> 01:23:56,270
an airship Jerry Clark thinks there was

2105
01:24:00,340 --> 01:23:58,340
a core of good sightings that came out

2106
01:24:02,710 --> 01:24:00,350
of California in 1896 that kind of

2107
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:02,720
sparked this I think I think Jerry's

2108
01:24:05,950 --> 01:24:04,610
wrong on that but and Jerry thinks I'm

2109
01:24:07,780 --> 01:24:05,960
wrong so you know it's one of those

2110
01:24:10,270 --> 01:24:07,790
things well we disagree but we can

2111
01:24:11,890 --> 01:24:10,280
disagree as gentlemen and say well you

2112
01:24:13,930 --> 01:24:11,900
know we'll have to agree to disagree but

2113
01:24:16,510 --> 01:24:13,940
I think they know the 1897 airship is

2114
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:16,520
basically the figment of a lot of

2115
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:19,010
people's imagination and a lot of

2116
01:24:23,140 --> 01:24:20,810
hoaxing going on people just having a

2117
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:23,150
good time with the stories right right

2118
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:24,770
you know one thing I forgot to explain

2119
01:24:29,650 --> 01:24:26,990
at the beginning of the show someone

2120
01:24:32,230 --> 01:24:29,660
just asked in the chat room is why is my

2121
01:24:33,109 --> 01:24:32,240
show Monday night and why is it later

2122
01:24:35,180 --> 01:24:33,119
and

2123
01:24:39,740 --> 01:24:35,190
I never I never even mentioned that so

2124
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:39,750
yeah it was you my fault my fault yeah

2125
01:24:44,570 --> 01:24:42,449
but that's okay I I looked at at this

2126
01:24:46,339 --> 01:24:44,580
you know I look at it this way it's

2127
01:24:48,169 --> 01:24:46,349
always great having you on and I don't

2128
01:24:50,990 --> 01:24:48,179
mind accommodating you in this certain

2129
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:51,000
circumstance so yeah I appreciate that

2130
01:24:54,100 --> 01:24:51,690
yeah

2131
01:24:57,589 --> 01:24:54,110
but Tuesday nights the seven o'clock

2132
01:24:59,959 --> 01:24:57,599
hours just I can't do it at seven

2133
01:25:02,149 --> 01:24:59,969
o'clock on Tuesday nights yes so it was

2134
01:25:03,709 --> 01:25:02,159
my fault and I you know if we could have

2135
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:03,719
done it an hour later or whatever that

2136
01:25:07,370 --> 01:25:05,280
would have been fine but you know

2137
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:07,380
Tuesday night just didn't work for me so

2138
01:25:12,290 --> 01:25:09,210
yeah yeah and I appreciate the

2139
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:12,300
accommodation yeah taking over doing

2140
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:14,489
this for me helping me out well it seems

2141
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:15,810
like we have a lot more people on

2142
01:25:19,459 --> 01:25:17,820
YouTube that maybe it's a good time spot

2143
01:25:23,330 --> 01:25:19,469
maybe you helped me discover something

2144
01:25:25,879 --> 01:25:23,340
I'm not sure someone wrote early on and

2145
01:25:27,979 --> 01:25:25,889
when we first started the show they

2146
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:27,989
wanted you to and I think you've talked

2147
01:25:32,990 --> 01:25:31,050
about this on show maybe not the last

2148
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:33,000
one of the time you were on before but

2149
01:25:38,510 --> 01:25:35,489
what your thoughts are about Roswell now

2150
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:38,520
that's what the question is yeah give me

2151
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:40,290
a chance to promote a book I did a book

2152
01:25:44,419 --> 01:25:42,690
called Roswell in the 21st century which

2153
01:25:46,490 --> 01:25:44,429
is available right now this minute on

2154
01:25:50,419 --> 01:25:46,500
Kindle you could be reading it in 30

2155
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:50,429
seconds but what I did was I looked at

2156
01:25:55,609 --> 01:25:53,130
the Roswell case as a cold case gone

2157
01:25:56,990 --> 01:25:55,619
back to all the witnesses gone back to

2158
01:25:58,899 --> 01:25:57,000
the documentation gone back to

2159
01:26:01,640 --> 01:25:58,909
everything that I could find on Roswell

2160
01:26:05,390 --> 01:26:01,650
looking at it as dispassionately as I

2161
01:26:07,339 --> 01:26:05,400
possibly could and then put it all

2162
01:26:10,959 --> 01:26:07,349
together in the book and I think that

2163
01:26:13,399 --> 01:26:10,969
well in the early 1990s a lot of us

2164
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:13,409
thought that rubella the Roswell was a

2165
01:26:15,740 --> 01:26:15,210
very robust case with a lot of good

2166
01:26:18,350 --> 01:26:15,750
stuff

2167
01:26:20,629 --> 01:26:18,360
since that time novel witnesses have

2168
01:26:23,060 --> 01:26:20,639
blown up while the witnesses proved out

2169
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:23,070
to be proved to be less than candid with

2170
01:26:26,899 --> 01:26:25,650
their descriptions of what they saw we

2171
01:26:29,209 --> 01:26:26,909
haven't been able to find any

2172
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:29,219
documentation I'm concerned that we

2173
01:26:33,919 --> 01:26:31,170
couldn't find a diary somebody kept a

2174
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:33,929
private diary that explains some of this

2175
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:34,290
stuff

2176
01:26:38,209 --> 01:26:36,570
although Denis Marcel and some of the

2177
01:26:40,729 --> 01:26:38,219
Marcel family said that their father

2178
01:26:43,010 --> 01:26:40,739
their grandfather Jesse Marcel senior

2179
01:26:45,530 --> 01:26:43,020
did keep a diary and it's in their hands

2180
01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:45,540
and they're doing various testing so

2181
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:46,320
that when

2182
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:47,970
skeptics say wow you guys just wrote

2183
01:26:51,620 --> 01:26:50,400
this last week they can say now here's

2184
01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:51,630
here's the evidence that showed that

2185
01:26:58,730 --> 01:26:54,510
this Diary was completed and little you

2186
01:27:02,150 --> 01:26:58,740
know 1947-1948 time frame we did find

2187
01:27:04,490 --> 01:27:02,160
one one diary kept by Ruth Barnett which

2188
01:27:06,500 --> 01:27:04,500
has to do with the plains of san agustin

2189
01:27:10,190 --> 01:27:06,510
crash that dealt with it was brought

2190
01:27:12,350 --> 01:27:10,200
into the Roswell case no mention of

2191
01:27:14,290 --> 01:27:12,360
anything on the plains of san agustin in

2192
01:27:16,670 --> 01:27:14,300
that diary which was very disturbing

2193
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:16,680
suggesting that you know well we got the

2194
01:27:20,270 --> 01:27:18,510
time frame wrong or nothing happened for

2195
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:20,280
some reason Barney Barnett was spinning

2196
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:22,890
the tale but we never find anything like

2197
01:27:27,050 --> 01:27:24,480
that so I looked at all of this and put

2198
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:27,060
it together as best I could in the book

2199
01:27:31,970 --> 01:27:29,370
Roswell the 21st century looked in depth

2200
01:27:35,390 --> 01:27:31,980
at the project mogul explanation which I

2201
01:27:38,930 --> 01:27:35,400
am absolutely astonished that we have a

2202
01:27:41,180 --> 01:27:38,940
document written by the man who was in

2203
01:27:41,570 --> 01:27:41,190
charge of project mogul our query doctor

2204
01:27:44,510 --> 01:27:41,580
Crary

2205
01:27:46,910 --> 01:27:44,520
who says on the flight that supposedly

2206
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:46,920
landed on the Brazel ranch and explains

2207
01:27:52,370 --> 01:27:48,930
the whole thing wrote on the date June

2208
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:52,380
4th no flight today excuse me

2209
01:27:57,770 --> 01:27:54,780
doesn't that pretty well rule out mogul

2210
01:28:00,830 --> 01:27:57,780
I think you know that sort of thing I

2211
01:28:02,750 --> 01:28:00,840
looked at the mj-12 documents at

2212
01:28:04,850 --> 01:28:02,760
in-depth looked at a lot of these sort

2213
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:04,860
of things in-depth tried to put the

2214
01:28:11,090 --> 01:28:07,650
story together at best I could based on

2215
01:28:14,210 --> 01:28:11,100
as it is a cold case so my feeling is

2216
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:14,220
it's not nearly as robust as it was some

2217
01:28:17,420 --> 01:28:16,050
of the witnesses aren't as good as we

2218
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:17,430
thought they were some of the inference

2219
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:19,920
evidences not panned out like we hoped

2220
01:28:24,110 --> 01:28:22,170
it would and when we get right down to

2221
01:28:28,910 --> 01:28:24,120
it we're left with no explanation for

2222
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:28,920
what fell at Roswell and that's IIIi can

2223
01:28:32,150 --> 01:28:30,090
lean toward the extra-terrestrial

2224
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:32,160
because there I can find no terrestrial

2225
01:28:38,180 --> 01:28:35,010
explanation for it but by the same token

2226
01:28:40,610 --> 01:28:38,190
that may be a leap that I do not want to

2227
01:28:43,190 --> 01:28:40,620
take without some better evidence for it

2228
01:28:45,020 --> 01:28:43,200
so where we are right now is we've got

2229
01:28:46,820 --> 01:28:45,030
some very interesting stories about the

2230
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:46,830
Roswell case and we got to look at all

2231
01:28:51,650 --> 01:28:48,690
of that stuff we have no explanation for

2232
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:51,660
what fell at Roswell does is that

2233
01:28:54,710 --> 01:28:53,010
sufficient to take us to the

2234
01:28:56,420 --> 01:28:54,720
extra-terrestrial I think the person

2235
01:28:59,090 --> 01:28:56,430
reading the book or studying the case

2236
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:59,100
has to make that determination for

2237
01:29:03,470 --> 01:29:00,239
himself or herself

2238
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:03,480
uh-huh well on another thing beside to

2239
01:29:07,970 --> 01:29:06,090
Diaries people write letters you know

2240
01:29:10,399 --> 01:29:07,980
and I'm surprised the letter has never

2241
01:29:12,140 --> 01:29:10,409
surfaced that someone wrote you know

2242
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:12,150
either from the base you know to a loved

2243
01:29:15,979 --> 01:29:14,249
one or whatever say hey mom you know you

2244
01:29:19,759 --> 01:29:15,989
can't believe what I saw or something

2245
01:29:21,649 --> 01:29:19,769
like that and I've still got all the

2246
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:21,659
letters that I wrote home from Vietnam

2247
01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:25,650
in 68 and 69 which gives you an idea of

2248
01:29:31,850 --> 01:29:28,320
how old I am if my picture didn't give

2249
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:31,860
it away but but I have I have though I

2250
01:29:35,180 --> 01:29:33,449
have those letters and I know my wife's

2251
01:29:37,790 --> 01:29:35,190
got though the letters that her father

2252
01:29:38,620 --> 01:29:37,800
wrote home to his to her mother from

2253
01:29:41,390 --> 01:29:38,630
World War two

2254
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:41,400
so families keep those sorts of things

2255
01:29:48,290 --> 01:29:44,730
and the best we can look at is Inez

2256
01:29:51,649 --> 01:29:48,300
Wilcox who was the sheriff wife of the

2257
01:29:54,259 --> 01:29:51,659
sheriff George Wilcox in Roswell in 1947

2258
01:29:57,739 --> 01:29:54,269
and Wilcox was involved and she did a

2259
01:29:59,660 --> 01:29:57,749
story she thought for she wrote it for

2260
01:30:02,419 --> 01:29:59,670
the Reader's Digest I guess called three

2261
01:30:05,089 --> 01:30:02,429
four years in the county jail and the

2262
01:30:07,009 --> 01:30:05,099
gag was of course she was a matron for

2263
01:30:08,989 --> 01:30:07,019
the jail when her husband was the

2264
01:30:11,299 --> 01:30:08,999
sheriff so they weren't incarcerated

2265
01:30:16,549 --> 01:30:11,309
they were running to jail and in there

2266
01:30:18,879 --> 01:30:16,559
she put the story of the of the seeing

2267
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:18,889
the little the crash and the little men

2268
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:22,800
the problem with it is it's not dated we

2269
01:30:27,470 --> 01:30:25,440
don't know when she wrote it and it was

2270
01:30:29,299 --> 01:30:27,480
an Edition that she added to the story

2271
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:29,309
after the original story had been

2272
01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:31,050
written it never got published but it

2273
01:30:34,959 --> 01:30:33,780
was I I think it was like page 8a or

2274
01:30:39,410 --> 01:30:34,969
something like this and there's this

2275
01:30:43,279 --> 01:30:39,420
paragraph about the the UFO the flying

2276
01:30:45,890 --> 01:30:43,289
saucer crash but it's not dated I found

2277
01:30:47,870 --> 01:30:45,900
out that she had passed away in 1989

2278
01:30:51,649 --> 01:30:47,880
while the Roselyn incident book came out

2279
01:30:52,790 --> 01:30:51,659
in 1980 so it wasn't like yeah so it

2280
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:52,800
could she could have been contaminated

2281
01:30:57,680 --> 01:30:55,170
from that source or some of the

2282
01:31:00,140 --> 01:30:57,690
documentaries I think in search of did

2283
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:00,150
something on Roswell in the early 1980s

2284
01:31:05,390 --> 01:31:03,570
so it's possible that she had seen that

2285
01:31:07,399 --> 01:31:05,400
but that you know we was not that

2286
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:07,409
document it's interesting and but

2287
01:31:11,390 --> 01:31:09,449
without a date on it we're just kind of

2288
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:11,400
well you know she could have written it

2289
01:31:17,570 --> 01:31:14,250
and long after the story became

2290
01:31:18,980 --> 01:31:17,580
in the public arena also when you were

2291
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:18,990
talking about the Marcel's

2292
01:31:25,850 --> 01:31:23,010
suppose that diary it would be very hard

2293
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:25,860
to prove that that diarrhea is from 1947

2294
01:31:31,070 --> 01:31:29,040
because there could be so many you know

2295
01:31:33,380 --> 01:31:31,080
there are us I just see so many

2296
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:33,390
different ways people even fake things

2297
01:31:37,130 --> 01:31:35,760
as early as Abraham Lincoln autographs

2298
01:31:39,980 --> 01:31:37,140
and things like that there's there's

2299
01:31:43,610 --> 01:31:39,990
ways to to find Civil War paper there's

2300
01:31:45,470 --> 01:31:43,620
ways to find you know 1940s Diaries that

2301
01:31:47,870 --> 01:31:45,480
are empty and you know I mean it's gonna

2302
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:47,880
be a real tough one to prove I think

2303
01:31:52,070 --> 01:31:49,920
well but it but but then you can look at

2304
01:31:55,250 --> 01:31:52,080
the ink yeah you can look for

2305
01:31:58,540 --> 01:31:55,260
anachronisms there are things that you

2306
01:32:01,220 --> 01:31:58,550
can be done to validate it validate the

2307
01:32:03,290 --> 01:32:01,230
the diary I don't think the Marcel

2308
01:32:05,390 --> 01:32:03,300
family would participate in any kind of

2309
01:32:08,030 --> 01:32:05,400
hobo I know that I'm just talk about the

2310
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:08,040
skeptics but I think but I think the ink

2311
01:32:14,150 --> 01:32:11,760
can be the ink can be the formulation of

2312
01:32:16,130 --> 01:32:14,160
the ink yetee happened that's true and

2313
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:16,140
it is ink if it's pencil then you know

2314
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:18,570
that's that's a little tougher you know

2315
01:32:24,950 --> 01:32:21,690
and around you know but you can take a

2316
01:32:27,260 --> 01:32:24,960
look at the way the the graphite is on

2317
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,270
the page and things like that to see if

2318
01:32:31,940 --> 01:32:29,760
it's aged properly so there are things

2319
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:31,950
you can do either the big thing is

2320
01:32:39,020 --> 01:32:35,370
talking in that arena the de la pena

2321
01:32:40,820 --> 01:32:39,030
diary from the Alamo which is the one

2322
01:32:41,990 --> 01:32:40,830
that where the story the Davy Crockett

2323
01:32:45,380 --> 01:32:42,000
surrendered comes from

2324
01:32:46,790 --> 01:32:45,390
mm-hmm and the idea you know they looked

2325
01:32:48,170 --> 01:32:46,800
at the ink they looked at all of that

2326
01:32:50,660 --> 01:32:48,180
sort of thing and they were unable to

2327
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:50,670
establish the provenance of the diary so

2328
01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:52,650
you can believe that today la pena diary

2329
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:54,960
is an authentic document from the Texas

2330
01:32:59,660 --> 01:32:57,210
Revolution or it was a modern forgery

2331
01:33:01,760 --> 01:32:59,670
you know depending on what you want to

2332
01:33:03,950 --> 01:33:01,770
believe and so we understand that on the

2333
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:03,960
other side of that coin we had the great

2334
01:33:10,700 --> 01:33:08,250
faked George W Bush documents that got

2335
01:33:12,620 --> 01:33:10,710
dan Rather in trouble and they were able

2336
01:33:15,290 --> 01:33:12,630
to establish that the documents were

2337
01:33:17,630 --> 01:33:15,300
modern oh that's right that's right

2338
01:33:20,450 --> 01:33:17,640
Wow and he just went down the tube on

2339
01:33:23,210 --> 01:33:20,460
they wanted to believe so badly yeah

2340
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:23,220
that George W Bush had not fulfilled his

2341
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:26,610
duty properly and the documentation they

2342
01:33:31,250 --> 01:33:28,650
had to prove did just

2343
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:31,260
the documents they had were copies they

2344
01:33:34,700 --> 01:33:33,330
didn't have the real documents and at

2345
01:33:36,440 --> 01:33:34,710
that point you know you're dead in the

2346
01:33:39,290 --> 01:33:36,450
water and trying to validate this stuff

2347
01:33:42,380 --> 01:33:39,300
and after they got called on it then

2348
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:42,390
they began to look at it specifically

2349
01:33:48,170 --> 01:33:46,410
Peter ty tell who by the way was was the

2350
01:33:50,150 --> 01:33:48,180
first person approached by Stan Freedman

2351
01:33:52,250 --> 01:33:50,160
to validate the mj-12 documents and

2352
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:52,260
believes them to be a hoax was called by

2353
01:33:57,110 --> 01:33:55,650
CBS to validate these papers and by the

2354
01:33:58,460 --> 01:33:57,120
time he got back to him he was out of

2355
01:33:59,660 --> 01:33:58,470
town or something by the time he got

2356
01:34:03,050 --> 01:33:59,670
back to him they had found other

2357
01:34:04,940 --> 01:34:03,060
document for document examiner's to look

2358
01:34:06,470 --> 01:34:04,950
at it but Peter tie tell was originally

2359
01:34:08,300 --> 01:34:06,480
approached by CBS to validate those

2360
01:34:12,290 --> 01:34:08,310
documents so now we got Peter title

2361
01:34:16,990 --> 01:34:12,300
who's tied into mj-12 and the great

2362
01:34:20,480 --> 01:34:17,000
George W Bush document forgery Fiasco

2363
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:20,490
Wow which by the way I should point out

2364
01:34:24,020 --> 01:34:22,170
does not mean that George W Bush

2365
01:34:26,090 --> 01:34:24,030
fulfilled his National Guard service

2366
01:34:28,340 --> 01:34:26,100
properly it means the documents they

2367
01:34:30,260 --> 01:34:28,350
were going to to prove it were forgeries

2368
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:30,270
and they could they couldn't find other

2369
01:34:37,340 --> 01:34:32,970
documents to support the the allegations

2370
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:37,350
mm-hmm yeah I think I'm going to I think

2371
01:34:42,860 --> 01:34:40,410
I'm going to attempt to take up a phone

2372
01:34:46,490 --> 01:34:42,870
call now as I mentioned earlier I'm on

2373
01:34:47,810 --> 01:34:46,500
this little tiny Mac computer and I'm

2374
01:34:50,390 --> 01:34:47,820
not really sure if I'm gonna be able to

2375
01:34:50,990 --> 01:34:50,400
but that phone number is going up on the

2376
01:34:52,940 --> 01:34:51,000
line right now

2377
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:52,950
if someone wants to call in and ask a

2378
01:34:58,610 --> 01:34:55,410
question that number six oh three nine

2379
01:35:02,650 --> 01:34:58,620
six seven 403 oh I get calls all the

2380
01:35:05,690 --> 01:35:02,660
time off off you know off hours and

2381
01:35:07,820 --> 01:35:05,700
someone called the other day and asked

2382
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:07,830
to speak to Stanton Friedman because I

2383
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:08,970
did his show with them several months

2384
01:35:12,500 --> 01:35:10,890
ago so they watch it on YouTube and

2385
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:12,510
watch the number come up so this is show

2386
01:35:18,020 --> 01:35:14,970
time only this phone numbers active show

2387
01:35:20,420 --> 01:35:18,030
time only and so if someone wants to try

2388
01:35:23,390 --> 01:35:20,430
to call in go ahead like Stan's phone

2389
01:35:24,830 --> 01:35:23,400
number I have it I'm sure you'd

2390
01:35:30,260 --> 01:35:24,840
appreciate me giving it out yeah that's

2391
01:35:32,030 --> 01:35:30,270
right let's give it over live yeah so so

2392
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:32,040
I'm sure there's other questions up on

2393
01:35:39,710 --> 01:35:36,450
the chat and let's see I just want to

2394
01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:39,720
see if I can pull up anything right now

2395
01:35:45,050 --> 01:35:41,940
but the direction

2396
01:35:47,260 --> 01:35:45,060
that you think until we have you know if

2397
01:35:49,820 --> 01:35:47,270
there's someone callin or I find a

2398
01:35:52,970 --> 01:35:49,830
question up here what do you think that

2399
01:35:57,680 --> 01:35:52,980
you think the direction is going pretty

2400
01:35:59,660 --> 01:35:57,690
good as far as ufology goes or what's

2401
01:36:01,820 --> 01:35:59,670
your thoughts on it you know some people

2402
01:36:04,610 --> 01:36:01,830
you safe they should drain the swamp you

2403
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:04,620
know on and on and on but what do you

2404
01:36:10,940 --> 01:36:08,250
think in general since you know for

2405
01:36:12,380 --> 01:36:10,950
instance since the up we have a call

2406
01:36:14,930 --> 01:36:12,390
coming in it looks like I'm not able to

2407
01:36:17,150 --> 01:36:14,940
join the call so we're gonna have to

2408
01:36:19,220 --> 01:36:17,160
take down the call number I'm sorry

2409
01:36:21,140 --> 01:36:19,230
I'm using a different computer and I

2410
01:36:24,860 --> 01:36:21,150
thought it would work no call tonight if

2411
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:24,870
you have any questions please just put

2412
01:36:30,530 --> 01:36:26,370
that in the chat room and I'll try to

2413
01:36:31,790 --> 01:36:30,540
get to that and so I was basically was

2414
01:36:34,750 --> 01:36:31,800
asking Kevin what do you think the

2415
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:34,760
direction of ufology is going in in

2416
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:40,610
general oh I'd like to say I'm hopeful

2417
01:36:49,100 --> 01:36:44,970
but I see too much nonsense being

2418
01:36:51,770 --> 01:36:49,110
embraced there was a woman on a radio

2419
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:51,780
program Oh a year ago or so that decided

2420
01:36:57,170 --> 01:36:55,050
that her research had proven that none

2421
01:36:59,720 --> 01:36:57,180
of us had been too into in Iraq we had

2422
01:37:02,960 --> 01:36:59,730
actually been to Mars oh I knew that and

2423
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:02,970
yeah and and and fought on Mars and then

2424
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:05,010
we were brainwashed when we came back to

2425
01:37:10,100 --> 01:37:08,130
be convinced we were in Iraq and and

2426
01:37:13,580 --> 01:37:10,110
people by that nonsense there's these

2427
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:13,590
guys claiming to be time travelers you

2428
01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:15,330
know if you're a time traveler give me

2429
01:37:21,470 --> 01:37:18,050
the lottery numbers please thank you

2430
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:21,480
tell me what stock to buy tomorrow you

2431
01:37:24,980 --> 01:37:22,770
know what's the price of gold gonna do

2432
01:37:28,220 --> 01:37:24,990
anything yeah that I could I could

2433
01:37:30,230 --> 01:37:28,230
become rich on and they embraced this

2434
01:37:33,590 --> 01:37:30,240
nonsense one guy claimed that he had

2435
01:37:36,620 --> 01:37:33,600
been abducted as a teenager fought on

2436
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:36,630
Mars for twenty years and returned been

2437
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:38,880
returned home like 15 minutes later

2438
01:37:43,070 --> 01:37:40,530
after he disappeared through some kind

2439
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:43,080
of time manipulation and I'm thinking

2440
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:46,320
people buy this crap and unfortunately

2441
01:37:49,730 --> 01:37:48,090
they do and it but it's been that way

2442
01:37:52,130 --> 01:37:49,740
since the beginning you had to contact

2443
01:37:54,650 --> 01:37:52,140
these with her nonsensical stuff George

2444
01:37:55,580 --> 01:37:54,660
Adamski was you know his pals on on

2445
01:37:57,890 --> 01:37:55,590
Venus

2446
01:37:59,570 --> 01:37:57,900
I'm thinking yeah what kind of metal do

2447
01:38:02,660 --> 01:37:59,580
they make their spaceships out of on

2448
01:38:04,850 --> 01:38:02,670
Venus right it doesn't get there yet

2449
01:38:06,740 --> 01:38:04,860
doesn't it get really really hot yeah

2450
01:38:10,340 --> 01:38:06,750
what kind of engine air conditioning

2451
01:38:11,690 --> 01:38:10,350
bill do they have you know and I see

2452
01:38:14,810 --> 01:38:11,700
that stuff and I think you know people

2453
01:38:16,340 --> 01:38:14,820
just don't apply any logic to what

2454
01:38:18,950 --> 01:38:16,350
they're being told some of the stories

2455
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:18,960
are just so outrageous and people say

2456
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:20,850
yeah that's true and then next thing you

2457
01:38:23,780 --> 01:38:22,080
know they're well they're spouting that

2458
01:38:25,820 --> 01:38:23,790
stuff off in it that's kind of worrisome

2459
01:38:26,930 --> 01:38:25,830
and and I know that there's been people

2460
01:38:28,220 --> 01:38:26,940
waiting for the old guard and you

2461
01:38:29,780 --> 01:38:28,230
followed you to die off so the young

2462
01:38:31,700 --> 01:38:29,790
whippersnappers can take over and get us

2463
01:38:33,380 --> 01:38:31,710
to the answers what I'm thinking if

2464
01:38:35,210 --> 01:38:33,390
they're don't have any better powers of

2465
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:35,220
critical thinking than they've displayed

2466
01:38:40,370 --> 01:38:37,530
they're gonna take it off into a really

2467
01:38:43,540 --> 01:38:40,380
weird place well I think a lot of that

2468
01:38:46,190 --> 01:38:43,550
is the people that latch on to that are

2469
01:38:48,890 --> 01:38:46,200
looking for something to latch on to I

2470
01:38:50,870 --> 01:38:48,900
think there's a lot more logical you

2471
01:38:52,970 --> 01:38:50,880
know like the flat earthers or you know

2472
01:38:54,860 --> 01:38:52,980
any of that but I think there's a lot of

2473
01:38:56,990 --> 01:38:54,870
people out there that are more you know

2474
01:38:59,030 --> 01:38:57,000
well at least the people that listen to

2475
01:39:01,490 --> 01:38:59,040
the show I get I get a lot of email they

2476
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:01,500
they liked the fact that I try to follow

2477
01:39:06,770 --> 01:39:04,050
logic as much as possible and and try to

2478
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:06,780
keep you know away from the fringe as

2479
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:09,600
much as possible so I think there is

2480
01:39:14,300 --> 01:39:12,210
there's just a second a other side but

2481
01:39:16,490 --> 01:39:14,310
on the other side of that coin you know

2482
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:16,500
I come on your program for example and I

2483
01:39:21,020 --> 01:39:19,170
try to explain logically with evidence

2484
01:39:22,670 --> 01:39:21,030
what has happened in what's going on and

2485
01:39:23,930 --> 01:39:22,680
then I'm attacked and develop I'd well

2486
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:23,940
you're nothing but a shell for the Air

2487
01:39:28,820 --> 01:39:26,490
Force you're some kind of special agent

2488
01:39:31,130 --> 01:39:28,830
for the Air Force with a mission to a

2489
01:39:33,050 --> 01:39:31,140
disinformation mission yeah I've

2490
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:33,060
actually had someone write me about you

2491
01:39:37,970 --> 01:39:37,290
yes something similar yeah mm-hm well

2492
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:37,980
there you go

2493
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:39,930
and but the point is if you if you look

2494
01:39:43,670 --> 01:39:42,000
at the evidence a word go I go where the

2495
01:39:45,110 --> 01:39:43,680
evidence goes that's where you should

2496
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:45,120
and if the of it and if the evidence

2497
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:47,130
doesn't take me there I'm not going to

2498
01:39:51,530 --> 01:39:48,690
go there if I wanted to be the number

2499
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:51,540
one UFO guy withstand moving out of the

2500
01:39:58,250 --> 01:39:55,770
way I would brace everything yep cattle

2501
01:39:59,960 --> 01:39:58,260
are being mutilated by UFOs yep crop

2502
01:40:03,050 --> 01:39:59,970
circles are real yep people are being

2503
01:40:05,780 --> 01:40:03,060
abducted wholesale you you buy into all

2504
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:05,790
of you but yes I was truly on Mars now

2505
01:40:09,470 --> 01:40:08,250
that my might the ten years has been

2506
01:40:11,090 --> 01:40:09,480
since I got 15 years since

2507
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:11,100
I got back my security clearance is

2508
01:40:15,500 --> 01:40:13,530
expired I can tell you about the big war

2509
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:15,510
on Mars and it was brilliant because

2510
01:40:22,220 --> 01:40:18,770
what they did was if we were to call

2511
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:22,230
email or or buy online something from

2512
01:40:26,510 --> 01:40:23,730
Walmart we would get it within a week

2513
01:40:29,150 --> 01:40:26,520
talk about the distribution system they

2514
01:40:31,610 --> 01:40:29,160
get stuff from Walmart to Mars in a week

2515
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:31,620
for crying out loud we could call home

2516
01:40:37,570 --> 01:40:35,489
with no time delay you know rather than

2517
01:40:39,860 --> 01:40:37,580
you know eight or nine minutes between

2518
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,870
wherever we happen the orbits happen to

2519
01:40:43,130 --> 01:40:41,280
match up wherever it was maybe as much

2520
01:40:45,110 --> 01:40:43,140
as 20 minutes we we could call home with

2521
01:40:49,729 --> 01:40:45,120
instantaneous you know all of that stuff

2522
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:49,739
not a problem and and so you know I just

2523
01:40:54,770 --> 01:40:52,650
cannot embrace all of that stuff if I've

2524
01:40:56,570 --> 01:40:54,780
got an explanation for a case I've got

2525
01:40:59,060 --> 01:40:56,580
to give it you want a case that's great

2526
01:41:01,340 --> 01:40:59,070
look at level and there's no explanation

2527
01:41:04,100 --> 01:41:01,350
for that and you've got the UFO seen by

2528
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:04,110
everybody that's a wonderful case that

2529
01:41:10,610 --> 01:41:06,210
suggests some kind of visitation what

2530
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:10,620
went is that one November of 1957 you

2531
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:14,610
know there's there's great cases out

2532
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:19,770
there that are lost in the noise of the

2533
01:41:24,410 --> 01:41:21,690
crap cases that people want to promote

2534
01:41:27,590 --> 01:41:24,420
that just make no sense and don't fit

2535
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:27,600
into the UFO a phenomenon properly well

2536
01:41:32,630 --> 01:41:29,970
let's you know enlighten us on that case

2537
01:41:39,260 --> 01:41:32,640
in particular if you would but love the

2538
01:41:41,510 --> 01:41:39,270
land yeah November 2nd 1957 Pedro secede

2539
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:41,520
oh who was a Korean War veteran I

2540
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:43,650
mentioned that because welcome the real

2541
01:41:49,070 --> 01:41:45,770
War veterans deserve some recognition

2542
01:41:50,780 --> 01:41:49,080
had his car his truck stalled object

2543
01:41:53,570 --> 01:41:50,790
landed near him that lights faded the

2544
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:53,580
truck stalled he was panicked jumped out

2545
01:41:57,050 --> 01:41:55,050
of the truck rolled underneath the

2546
01:41:59,270 --> 01:41:57,060
passenger sat there staring at the UFO

2547
01:42:01,790 --> 01:41:59,280
it took off the cars his truck started

2548
01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:01,800
he went and it's not clear whether he

2549
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:05,130
called the sheriff or he visited the

2550
01:42:10,490 --> 01:42:08,489
sheriff but people ignored him didn't

2551
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:10,500
believe a story not long after that

2552
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:13,050
other people begin having similar

2553
01:42:21,340 --> 01:42:18,690
circuit with UFO approaching them the

2554
01:42:25,570 --> 01:42:21,350
car dying the lights going out

2555
01:42:28,810 --> 01:42:25,580
there were two farmers in Petitte Texas

2556
01:42:31,689 --> 01:42:28,820
who were running two-column combines

2557
01:42:35,410 --> 01:42:31,699
they both died at the same time with the

2558
01:42:38,220 --> 01:42:35,420
UFO produce closely so you've got people

2559
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:38,230
at 13 separate locations talking about

2560
01:42:43,629 --> 01:42:41,330
these sorts of interactions with the

2561
01:42:45,939 --> 01:42:43,639
environment the sheriff goes out looking

2562
01:42:47,770 --> 01:42:45,949
for the original story was he saw a

2563
01:42:49,540 --> 01:42:47,780
streak of light in the distance but the

2564
01:42:51,790 --> 01:42:49,550
family says no he got a lot closer and

2565
01:42:54,399 --> 01:42:51,800
his car stalled out there was

2566
01:42:56,950 --> 01:42:54,409
information that there was a landing

2567
01:43:00,060 --> 01:42:56,960
trace case it was burned circle on a

2568
01:43:03,399 --> 01:43:00,070
ranch close to level and Texas that the

2569
01:43:06,399 --> 01:43:03,409
sheriff saw and went out to take a look

2570
01:43:10,359 --> 01:43:06,409
at that if we had investigated that case

2571
01:43:12,370 --> 01:43:10,369
in 1957 properly rather than the air for

2572
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:12,380
the Air Force officer I shouldn't say

2573
01:43:16,060 --> 01:43:14,510
office an airforce NCO who investigated

2574
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:16,070
some most of the day and level and

2575
01:43:20,649 --> 01:43:18,290
talking to a few of the people the Air

2576
01:43:22,450 --> 01:43:20,659
Force wrote it off as ball lightning a

2577
01:43:25,810 --> 01:43:22,460
phenomenon they couldn't even prove

2578
01:43:27,490 --> 01:43:25,820
existed in 1957 so they explained an

2579
01:43:29,770 --> 01:43:27,500
unknown phenomenon with another unknown

2580
01:43:32,470 --> 01:43:29,780
phenomenon and everybody say yeah ball

2581
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:32,480
lightning works for me ball lightning is

2582
01:43:38,470 --> 01:43:35,449
very small and very short-lived and very

2583
01:43:41,109 --> 01:43:38,480
rare but but it's a case with all of the

2584
01:43:42,490 --> 01:43:41,119
UFOs interactive the all view the UFO

2585
01:43:44,020 --> 01:43:42,500
interacting with the environment you had

2586
01:43:46,090 --> 01:43:44,030
lots of witnesses independently

2587
01:43:47,979 --> 01:43:46,100
reporting to the police and the sheriff

2588
01:43:50,950 --> 01:43:47,989
you have law enforcement officers seeing

2589
01:43:52,300 --> 01:43:50,960
the thing this would be a case that

2590
01:43:54,609 --> 01:43:52,310
would have been great

2591
01:43:57,850 --> 01:43:54,619
two hours later I think it was something

2592
01:44:00,129 --> 01:43:57,860
is seen at White Sands Missile Range by

2593
01:44:03,010 --> 01:44:00,139
a couple of MPs there I talked to one of

2594
01:44:04,570 --> 01:44:03,020
the MPS guy named Glen toy told me told

2595
01:44:06,129 --> 01:44:04,580
me that the Air Force explanation of it

2596
01:44:09,370 --> 01:44:06,139
being the moon didn't work because they

2597
01:44:12,729 --> 01:44:09,380
saw land a hundred yards away and then

2598
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:12,739
take off the next day two more MPs saw a

2599
01:44:17,859 --> 01:44:15,199
similar thing so you've got a series of

2600
01:44:19,830 --> 01:44:17,869
sightings that take place over about a

2601
01:44:22,330 --> 01:44:19,840
12 hour period around Levelland Texas

2602
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:22,340
where the UFO is seen by lots of

2603
01:44:28,270 --> 01:44:24,170
different people it interacts with the

2604
01:44:30,250 --> 01:44:28,280
environment great case but then you look

2605
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:30,260
at child's witted for example which we

2606
01:44:33,129 --> 01:44:31,760
talked about a little bit earlier I

2607
01:44:34,510 --> 01:44:33,139
think there's a little bit of an

2608
01:44:36,430 --> 01:44:34,520
explanation I'm not going

2609
01:44:39,010 --> 01:44:36,440
ignore what is it legitimate explanation

2610
01:44:41,170 --> 01:44:39,020
for this case based on the evidence

2611
01:44:44,470 --> 01:44:41,180
especially when we've got a similar case

2612
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:44,480
from 1968 that is explainable by things

2613
01:44:47,830 --> 01:44:46,130
breaking up in the atmosphere is it

2614
01:44:49,420 --> 01:44:47,840
returned to earth so you know you've got

2615
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:49,430
to take a look at all of that sort of

2616
01:44:54,430 --> 01:44:52,250
thing and but if I wanted to be the

2617
01:44:56,650 --> 01:44:54,440
number one UFO guy yeah broad Texas yeah

2618
01:44:57,250 --> 01:44:56,660
alien spacecraft crashed there yes I'm

2619
01:45:03,310 --> 01:44:57,260
on board

2620
01:45:05,200 --> 01:45:03,320
wright-patterson Air Force Base and now

2621
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:05,210
that I'm out I can tell you I saw the

2622
01:45:08,650 --> 01:45:06,650
bodies at wright-patterson Air Force

2623
01:45:09,340 --> 01:45:08,660
Base I was right there in the hangar

2624
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:09,350
with them

2625
01:45:14,830 --> 01:45:11,890
it looked down at him me and me and

2626
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:14,840
course he'll call he with the Fort Riley

2627
01:45:21,550 --> 01:45:18,850
I'm sorry at Fort Riley but you know

2628
01:45:24,460 --> 01:45:21,560
you've got to go where the evidence

2629
01:45:26,710 --> 01:45:24,470
takes you and release your belief

2630
01:45:28,450 --> 01:45:26,720
structure and what you want to believe

2631
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:28,460
and look at where are the evidence takes

2632
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:31,370
you yeah the very well says very well

2633
01:45:36,970 --> 01:45:34,250
said in the chat room someone have

2634
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:36,980
wanted you to talk about I don't think

2635
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:38,690
you had any connection to this case but

2636
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:42,530
the j al 1628 you know over alaska that

2637
01:45:48,700 --> 01:45:44,930
case which i think is a really fantastic

2638
01:45:51,010 --> 01:45:48,710
case but it's a great case yeah it's an

2639
01:45:53,740 --> 01:45:51,020
i actually i actually fired a couple of

2640
01:45:56,080 --> 01:45:53,750
radar operations on that to see if i

2641
01:45:59,290 --> 01:45:56,090
could determine a little bit more about

2642
01:46:01,630 --> 01:45:59,300
the radar and got some got got a quick

2643
01:46:04,050 --> 01:46:01,640
response from the air force on that what

2644
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:04,060
i was trying to do is a lot of times the

2645
01:46:09,940 --> 01:46:07,130
radar facilities feed the radar

2646
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:09,950
information to different entities like

2647
01:46:14,440 --> 01:46:12,290
the faa or the the Air Force the Air

2648
01:46:16,300 --> 01:46:14,450
Force puts its own discrimination on the

2649
01:46:19,030 --> 01:46:16,310
radar returns the FAA puts different

2650
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:19,040
discrimination on it to read out when

2651
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:20,810
the mundane like birds and that sort of

2652
01:46:26,290 --> 01:46:24,650
thing but you've got a great case you've

2653
01:46:28,240 --> 01:46:26,300
got pilots who've seen the thing for a

2654
01:46:30,550 --> 01:46:28,250
long time what is more important about

2655
01:46:34,270 --> 01:46:30,560
that is the reaction to the guy lost his

2656
01:46:35,410 --> 01:46:34,280
flying job after reporting the UFO but I

2657
01:46:37,480 --> 01:46:35,420
don't think there's a good explanation

2658
01:46:41,170 --> 01:46:37,490
for that case and I think it's I think

2659
01:46:45,010 --> 01:46:41,180
it's a wonderful case with a the only

2660
01:46:47,710 --> 01:46:45,020
the only bad thing is they didn't get a

2661
01:46:48,339 --> 01:46:47,720
good picture they had cameras they just

2662
01:46:51,279 --> 01:46:48,349
didn't take

2663
01:46:52,899 --> 01:46:51,289
I don't I don't know but in those sorts

2664
01:46:55,569 --> 01:46:52,909
of circumstances someday and if you're

2665
01:46:57,099 --> 01:46:55,579
the pilot sometimes it's really hard to

2666
01:46:58,569 --> 01:46:57,109
worry about taking pictures of something

2667
01:47:00,639 --> 01:46:58,579
if you're trying to fly the airplane at

2668
01:47:01,779 --> 01:47:00,649
the same time but they did they did the

2669
01:47:04,089 --> 01:47:01,789
sort of thing you would expect them to

2670
01:47:06,250 --> 01:47:04,099
do in an attempted identify what it was

2671
01:47:08,259 --> 01:47:06,260
and they were unable to do so so there

2672
01:47:10,359 --> 01:47:08,269
that's a very good case as well I wrote

2673
01:47:12,039 --> 01:47:10,369
about it one of I think the government

2674
01:47:13,959 --> 01:47:12,049
UFO FILES book I think I wrote about

2675
01:47:16,989 --> 01:47:13,969
that and there and at that point I was I

2676
01:47:19,270 --> 01:47:16,999
did some foil work into the Air Force

2677
01:47:22,389 --> 01:47:19,280
and and that sort of thing from what I

2678
01:47:26,469 --> 01:47:22,399
understand nightcap was able to help

2679
01:47:30,789 --> 01:47:26,479
that pilot get his get well Richard

2680
01:47:32,799 --> 01:47:30,799
Haines Richard Haines yeah it is get him

2681
01:47:34,539 --> 01:47:32,809
Bob it's Planum get its flying job back

2682
01:47:37,239 --> 01:47:34,549
here yeah he'd been he had been devoted

2683
01:47:39,219 --> 01:47:37,249
to a desk and they it did manage to get

2684
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:39,229
back into a flying job but Dad that also

2685
01:47:43,659 --> 01:47:41,449
kind of underscores that well if you see

2686
01:47:45,309 --> 01:47:43,669
a UFO you may lose your flying job yeah

2687
01:47:47,559 --> 01:47:45,319
which would inhibit people from talking

2688
01:47:49,539 --> 01:47:47,569
well I didn't see any of that no it

2689
01:47:51,099 --> 01:47:49,549
wasn't in the Close Encounters where

2690
01:47:52,689 --> 01:47:51,109
they asked the airline pilot you want to

2691
01:47:56,079 --> 01:47:52,699
reporter you off I said no I don't think

2692
01:47:58,989 --> 01:47:56,089
so yeah I didn't see anything

2693
01:48:01,059 --> 01:47:58,999
yeah and you know I understand but I

2694
01:48:04,719 --> 01:48:01,069
think I think that's loosening up we've

2695
01:48:11,739 --> 01:48:04,729
seen evidence of that recently with the

2696
01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:11,749
Arizona FAA situation also Oregon and

2697
01:48:15,669 --> 01:48:13,760
the Irish well Irish that's Ireland a

2698
01:48:17,559 --> 01:48:15,679
whole different thing but still there's

2699
01:48:21,669 --> 01:48:17,569
been a couple of cases where the FAA has

2700
01:48:25,899 --> 01:48:21,679
been very responsive at least I had

2701
01:48:29,679 --> 01:48:25,909
Tyler Rogue away who writes for the war

2702
01:48:32,319 --> 01:48:29,689
zone and he was able to get information

2703
01:48:33,759 --> 01:48:32,329
right away even recordings so it seems

2704
01:48:36,189 --> 01:48:33,769
like they're loosening up a little bit

2705
01:48:38,529 --> 01:48:36,199
on the Jael case I talked to John

2706
01:48:42,339 --> 01:48:38,539
Callahan who was the a investigator on

2707
01:48:45,099 --> 01:48:42,349
that and I've got his you know after

2708
01:48:49,659 --> 01:48:45,109
he'd given his talk at the Citizen

2709
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:49,669
hearing in Washington DC in 1919 in 2013

2710
01:48:55,329 --> 01:48:52,159
I actually got the transcript of his

2711
01:48:59,319 --> 01:48:55,339
remarks he gave them to me so what I did

2712
01:49:02,110 --> 01:48:59,329
my report on it for for the book I had

2713
01:49:05,350 --> 01:49:02,120
his remarks from from his

2714
01:49:07,780 --> 01:49:05,360
talk and that the the things that he

2715
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:07,790
learned because they had the radar track

2716
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:11,570
of the of the object and they could put

2717
01:49:16,420 --> 01:49:14,330
together everything in a timeline now

2718
01:49:18,220 --> 01:49:16,430
one thing he did say is that the CIA

2719
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:18,230
guys showed up said yeah we weren't here

2720
01:49:22,540 --> 01:49:19,610
you know we didn't we didn't we didn't

2721
01:49:24,340 --> 01:49:22,550
hear this we're not here yeah but but

2722
01:49:26,470 --> 01:49:24,350
you know so that's a good case like I

2723
01:49:29,230 --> 01:49:26,480
talked to John Callahan for a while

2724
01:49:30,700 --> 01:49:29,240
about it man God got his the transcript

2725
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:30,710
of his remarks so I have you know some

2726
01:49:33,520 --> 01:49:32,330
good information on that that came from

2727
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:33,530
another one of the people who was

2728
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:35,090
directly involved in the the

2729
01:49:39,850 --> 01:49:37,970
investigation right and just uh we only

2730
01:49:41,980 --> 01:49:39,860
have a three minutes left

2731
01:49:43,990 --> 01:49:41,990
just for again we have a lot of new

2732
01:49:45,700 --> 01:49:44,000
listeners and you know someone has

2733
01:49:48,430 --> 01:49:45,710
written in the chat room oh I'm gonna

2734
01:49:51,250 --> 01:49:48,440
look into that case or whatever so can

2735
01:49:54,610 --> 01:49:51,260
you do can you give the overall of this

2736
01:49:57,040 --> 01:49:54,620
case what happened what switch they

2737
01:50:00,640 --> 01:49:57,050
change yeah sixteen was just it was just

2738
01:50:02,740 --> 01:50:00,650
it was just the the pilot and the crew

2739
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:02,750
of I think was a cargo plane as opposed

2740
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:04,970
to a passionate language had seen it

2741
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:07,610
seen the object kept track of it they

2742
01:50:12,850 --> 01:50:09,410
made a number of turns to see if they

2743
01:50:15,070 --> 01:50:12,860
could get any more information or how it

2744
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:15,080
react to their turns and eventually it

2745
01:50:18,970 --> 01:50:16,730
disappeared in the distance and they

2746
01:50:20,770 --> 01:50:18,980
flew on and completed their mission but

2747
01:50:22,480 --> 01:50:20,780
there's the the radar information about

2748
01:50:23,020 --> 01:50:22,490
it I mean if you go you go to the

2749
01:50:26,170 --> 01:50:23,030
Internet

2750
01:50:28,180 --> 01:50:26,180
look up Jael 1628 and and you'll get a

2751
01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:28,190
lot of information I think it's in I

2752
01:50:34,630 --> 01:50:30,560
can't remember if it's in the government

2753
01:50:36,070 --> 01:50:34,640
UFO FILES book that I did you can you

2754
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:36,080
can go there and take a look at that

2755
01:50:39,310 --> 01:50:37,850
which is available on Kindle you could

2756
01:50:42,700 --> 01:50:39,320
be looking at it in 20 minutes

2757
01:50:44,110 --> 01:50:42,710
or 20 seconds um I don't I don't believe

2758
01:50:45,820 --> 01:50:44,120
I did anything on my blog about it

2759
01:50:48,130 --> 01:50:45,830
though I don't think that that's on the

2760
01:50:50,890 --> 01:50:48,140
blog yeah it's oh yeah and yeah that

2761
01:50:52,570 --> 01:50:50,900
that was really an amazing thing it was

2762
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:52,580
like looked like the shape of a walnut

2763
01:50:56,950 --> 01:50:53,930
or something like that

2764
01:50:58,690 --> 01:50:56,960
yeah oh yeah it was huge and uh perfect

2765
01:51:00,550 --> 01:50:58,700
and they had it on the weather radar

2766
01:51:02,620 --> 01:51:00,560
which is important against weather radar

2767
01:51:03,940 --> 01:51:02,630
is on the aircraft and then the radar on

2768
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:03,950
the ground tracked of things so you've

2769
01:51:08,470 --> 01:51:05,690
got two separate eight radar returns of

2770
01:51:10,300 --> 01:51:08,480
it as well yeah you know two independent

2771
01:51:12,460 --> 01:51:10,310
radars showing this object so there was

2772
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:12,470
something real there and they did that

2773
01:51:16,089 --> 01:51:14,930
big circle and the thing yes

2774
01:51:19,379 --> 01:51:16,099
fault along

2775
01:51:22,930 --> 01:51:19,389
which is yeah yeah something else and I

2776
01:51:25,450 --> 01:51:22,940
don't know it must have scared the heck

2777
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:25,460
out of them I would think you know how

2778
01:51:29,080 --> 01:51:27,170
do you explain something like that it's

2779
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:29,090
pretty it's such a mystery I don't I

2780
01:51:33,069 --> 01:51:31,250
don't understand why in today's world

2781
01:51:34,780 --> 01:51:33,079
people would be frightened by this but I

2782
01:51:36,459 --> 01:51:34,790
you know I read all kinds of cases where

2783
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:36,469
the first reaction is fear and I'm

2784
01:51:40,060 --> 01:51:38,210
thinking you know I think flying I would

2785
01:51:42,939 --> 01:51:40,070
have I would have fear flying more than

2786
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:42,949
anything else you know if I was up I was

2787
01:51:46,209 --> 01:51:44,449
a pilot flying a plane and I saw

2788
01:51:52,270 --> 01:51:46,219
something you just feel vulnerable up in

2789
01:51:54,399 --> 01:51:52,280
the sky you know I think yeah I'm not

2790
01:51:56,200 --> 01:51:54,409
sure I agree with that because being a

2791
01:52:01,899 --> 01:51:56,210
combat pilot we saw lots of stuff in the

2792
01:52:07,300 --> 01:52:01,909
sky well so glad the lights in the

2793
01:52:10,089 --> 01:52:07,310
sky yeah yep racers so if you would give

2794
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:10,099
out your your blog your blog spot and

2795
01:52:16,750 --> 01:52:13,730
how people can get your books and all

2796
01:52:18,879 --> 01:52:16,760
that Amazon right Oh Amazon Kindle has a

2797
01:52:22,169 --> 01:52:18,889
book so you can get them immediately the

2798
01:52:25,750 --> 01:52:22,179
blog is WWF and Randle blog spot.com

2799
01:52:27,339 --> 01:52:25,760
there's a lot of stuff on there there's

2800
01:52:30,399 --> 01:52:27,349
there's information about the programs

2801
01:52:33,339 --> 01:52:30,409
and I have the program I hosted as well

2802
01:52:35,709 --> 01:52:33,349
and one of the ones that just recently

2803
01:52:37,750 --> 01:52:35,719
was treasure quest and about how much

2804
01:52:39,490 --> 01:52:37,760
reality is involved in that program they

2805
01:52:41,319 --> 01:52:39,500
got a lot of people looking into it and

2806
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:41,329
I had one of the guys on the show from

2807
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:43,489
the show on my program so you can go

2808
01:52:47,200 --> 01:52:44,690
listen to what he has to say about

2809
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:47,210
treasure quest but that's at WWE Evan

2810
01:52:50,890 --> 01:52:49,010
Randall blogspot.com

2811
01:52:52,330 --> 01:52:50,900
the books are at Kendall just type my

2812
01:52:54,250 --> 01:52:52,340
name in there and you can find it and

2813
01:52:56,140 --> 01:52:54,260
there's usually some information about

2814
01:52:58,240 --> 01:52:56,150
it so you can just determine which book

2815
01:53:00,069 --> 01:52:58,250
you want the latest book was encounter

2816
01:53:02,290 --> 01:53:00,079
in the desert which is about the Lonnie

2817
01:53:04,030 --> 01:53:02,300
Zamora sighting in 1964 which is a good

2818
01:53:07,450 --> 01:53:04,040
sighting hey Lonnie

2819
01:53:09,189 --> 01:53:07,460
yeah what did I don't debunk yeah yeah

2820
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:09,199
that's a great one all right Kevin hey

2821
01:53:14,050 --> 01:53:12,290
thanks so much pleasure as always thank

2822
01:53:17,410 --> 01:53:14,060
you very much appreciate all the time oh

2823
01:53:19,959 --> 01:53:17,420
you bet and we'll have you on again as a

2824
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:19,969
regular guest I'm sure so you take care

2825
01:53:22,629 --> 01:53:22,010
all right you too thank you much all

2826
01:53:25,390 --> 01:53:22,639
right thank you

2827
01:53:28,839 --> 01:53:25,400
all right everyone so that's it for our

2828
01:53:29,750 --> 01:53:28,849
show and let's see next week we have

2829
01:53:32,419 --> 01:53:29,760
another

2830
01:53:35,419 --> 01:53:32,429
interesting show and that is we have a

2831
01:53:38,540 --> 01:53:35,429
ufologist from I think he's Beijing

2832
01:53:40,790 --> 01:53:38,550
China he's actually a Chinese ufologists

2833
01:53:44,330 --> 01:53:40,800
he speaks English a little bit of an

2834
01:53:45,620 --> 01:53:44,340
accent but I've he's very understandable

2835
01:53:49,069 --> 01:53:45,630
and I think he's gonna really love the

2836
01:53:50,660 --> 01:53:49,079
show next week his name is he likes to

2837
01:53:53,299 --> 01:53:50,670
be called Chuck so that's what we're

2838
01:53:54,890 --> 01:53:53,309
gonna call him truck Fei and he will be

2839
01:53:58,430 --> 01:53:54,900
on next week I want to thank everyone

2840
01:54:01,279 --> 01:53:58,440
that helps out with the show and behind

2841
01:54:02,509 --> 01:54:01,289
the scenes and you the listener and I

2842
01:54:05,029 --> 01:54:02,519
also want to thank the people that

2843
01:54:14,270 --> 01:54:05,039
support the show all right everyone so